Pyramid of debate is ridiculous

submitted by [deleted] from self.AskSaidIt

sorted by:
top
newinsightfulfun
you are viewing a single comment's thread.

view the rest of the comments →

[–]AntiLowEffortHuman 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (18 children)

Bro don't you think this is the wrong sub. Anyway if one does not follow it mods will remove the offending content

[–][deleted]  (16 children)

[deleted]

    [–]FormosaOolong 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (8 children)

    Generally when people are chronically posting at the lowest level. IP2 has its own set of rules tho.

    [–]u432 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

    IP2 has its own set of rules tho

    There are different rules for IP2 and the rest of SaidIt?

    [–]FormosaOolong 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

    I guess I shouldn't have said different rules, so much as they enjoy a culture of communication that doesn't respect the pyramid. After serious deliberation they were given their own platform here as long as they keep that kind of relating within their sub, and refrain from posting anything there that threatens the legal standing of Saidit. If they post low-level stuff out into the wider areas of Saidit, those users are held to the same standard as everyone else.

    So ultimately if you don't like it in there, it's up to you to not go in.

    [–]u432 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    After serious deliberation

    Is there a record of this deliberation somewhere?

    [–]comments 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

    /u/magnora7 /u/d3rr is this accurate? can you tell us more about why it was decided to give IP2 a space on SaidIt?

    [–]magnora7 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

    Yeah it's partitioned off from the rest of the site and they get an extra level or two of allowance on the pyramid of debate, and in exchange they're not allowed to be listed on /all or be on the front page (which is explained in the rules for saidit). They just wanted their own culture and we tried to make that happen for them without dragging down the rest of the site or just kicking them to the curb after they set up shop

    [–]comments 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

    When did IP2 join in the first place? Was it early on before SaidIt had established what kind of culture it was hoping to have?

    [–]magnora7 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

    ip2 joined about 6-7 months ago. Saidit has been around for 2 years.

    No it was pretty counter to saidit culture, which was pretty established early on, but IP2 wasn't openly advocating violence, and so we let them alone if they agreed to keep to their own space and not advocate violence, which they basically have done. But they don't get to have posts on /all or the front page as a result, so I think we worked out a fair compromise for everyone

    [–]gof-urself2 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    This guy Alpine /nine35 is a doxer, reports fake dmca's, and has multiple alts with intent to disturb the site. He is also nuts, and not worth a minute more of attention .

    [–]u432 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

    admins /u/magnora7 /u/d3rr can you please clarify?

    [–]magnora7 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

    On IP2 things advocating violence are removed, the name-calling level doesn't apply as much which is why they're not listed on /all. On the rest of the site the lowest 2 levels of the pyramid of debate are typically removed after warning.

    It's a guide.

    [–]u432 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

    It's a guide.

    What else influences decisions about content removal and bans?

    [–]magnora7 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

    The rules do: https://saidit.net/s/SaidIt/comments/j1/the_saiditnet_terms_and_content_policy/

    But the pyramid of debate is a central part of the rules.

    [–]u432 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

    Sorry, let me clarify: "it's a guide" implies that there are other unstated considerations which influence content removal and bans besides the pyramid itself as written. The only other considerations besides the pyramid of debate are vending of illegal materials, pornography, self-upvoting with alt accounts, and doxxing? "Guide" implies there's some other true target the guide just helps you reach, that enforcement is ultimately based on that true target.

    [–]magnora7 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

    The fact I said "it's a guide" means the pyramid is a guide to what types of behavior we like to see and what we don't. The consistency of the person's post history matters too. If there's a rare post that drags things downward, that's acceptable, but if all the person posts is ad-hominems then they're generally removed (outside of IP2)

    [–]comments 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    If I'm reading right, it sounds like the policy you're currently implementing as admins is to remove some (but not all? why some and not others?) stuff that's at the bottom two levels of the pyramid and to ban users who primarily post bottom-two-pyramid-level comments, except on IP2 which is given special treatment.

    This seems different from what's stated in the ToS (emphasis added):

    If a person is caught repeatedly dragging discussion in a downward direction on the Pyramid of Debate, they will be removed. If a person is caught repeatedly dragging the quality of discourse in an upward direction, they're highly valued!

    When voting [...] think of the Pyramid of Debate and if the person you're voting on is moving discussion in an upward or downward direction on the pyramid.

    When commenting or posting, think of the Pyramid of Debate, and if you are raising the level or lowering it.

    These things all mention the direction, not the absolute level. It's confusing, consider what the actual policy is. Maybe you could clarify the ToS a bit so it's clear to new (and old) users what they should expect here and what kind of behavior is acceptable (and what is not)?

    [–]u432 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    if one does not follow it mods will remove the offending content

    That isn't what's currently happening on the site.

    start of a pyramid-lowering content log

    and related, start of an admin abuse log