Majority of Americans 18-24 think Israel should ‘be ended and given to Hamas’

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[–]no_u 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

51% is hardly a majority, xeonix

Link to a decent report

Saiditors should also read the actual report, headed by Mark Penn, a Trump supporter and conspiracy promoter.

https://harvardharrispoll.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/12/HHP_Dec23_KeyResults.pdf

Anyone else see in this that the people polled are generally divided on these issues, that the poll is seriously pro-Israel and pro-Trump, that the questions are LEADING responses in far right Israel/Trump directions, and that all Palestinians are incorrectly identified as mixed with Hamas, so that it claims younger people 51% support Hamas (which is NOT true)? Public opinion is obviously framed by Israel's attrocities. The 3 people managing this poll should not be associated with Harvard, even if only partially associated. (I hope others here read the survey, so upvoted for visibility.)

[–]Dune1032 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (11 children)

This is the way to end the Israeli Palestinian conflict. Egypt will be given the West Bank enlarged by land equivalent to the Gaza Strip. In return, Israel will be given the Gaza Strip and land at least 3 times larger than the West Bank in the Sinai Peninsula. Some of the land will be adjacent to water so Israel can build desalination plants. The Sinai is inhospitable, and Egypt doesn’t have the technology to develop it but Israel does. With its new land, Egypt can give it to the Palestinians, make it a state within Egypt, or whatever it wants.

[–]no_u 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

That's an interesting idea, but I think it's more likely that that Israel will take over Northern Gaza, settle it, and continue taking over the West Bank. As long as they have support in the US, as long as AIPAC exists, Israel will do whatever it wants with Palestinians. Palestinians know that the land grabs by Israel are part of a program dating back to 1948. Nothing will stop Israel from doing this, until or unless a strong alliance prohibits it.

[–]Dune1032 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

I think Israel will like my idea because if they can develop the land Israel will grow significantly in size. Of course, they will have scientists and engineers analyze the land before accepting the deal. The alternative is perpetual war.

[–]weavilsatemyface 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

About a quarter of Israelis want to establish a state of Greater Israel that covers the entire Sinai, all of Palestine including Gaza and the West Bank, Jordan, most of Syria and Lebanon. They're the ones in charge.

The only way they can do this is perpetual war. This is why they always sabotage the peace process and never carry out their obligations under the peace treaties, then they blame Palestine for the breakdown of peace.

[–]Dune1032 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

A quarter is far from the majority. Most Israelis would be content to have a large piece of land in the Sinai and permanent peace.

[–]weavilsatemyface 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

A quarter is far from the majority.

So? As I said, they're the ones in charge. A minority of extremists leading a majority who are easily lead and propagandised to.

Most Israelis would be content to have a large piece of land in the Sinai and permanent peace.

You think most Israelis would be happy to give up East Jerusalem, Tel Aviv, Haifa, Eilat, etc for a piece of desert in the Sinai??? They won't even give up stealing Palestinian homes for peace.

You should check your carbon monoxide monitor.

[–]Dune1032 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

They would be willing to give up the West Bank and an adjacent piece of land at least 3 times larger. The land is desert, but Israel can build desalination plants. Israel would have the potential to become a much larger and more powerful country.

[–]weavilsatemyface 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

They would be willing to give up the West Bank and an adjacent piece of land at least 3 times larger.

There is no evidence that Israel is willing to give up one single square inch of ground for peace.

(No, wait, that's not completely true. Israel was willing to give back the occupied Sinai to Egypt for peace. Of course that was in 1982, when the Israeli government was less extreme, and their treaty was with Egypt, a sovereign state also allied to the USA. You will notice there is no willingness to give the Golan Heights back to Syria.)

As far as the Palestinians themselves, Israel has not returned one single square inch. Not since the Oslo Accords in 1993 and 1995; not since 1967; not since 1948. Every single time they have had peace, they have responded by taking more of the Palestine territories, and then blame the Palestinians for fighting back.

Even the withdrawal from Gaza was a strategic feint, not for peace, but to undercut the move towards a genuine grassroots Palestinian democratic movement by replacing it with the collaborationist dictatorial Palestinian Authority. And the result of that was for an Israeli extremist to assassinate the Prime Minister.

  • Former Israeli foreign minister Shlomo Ben-Ami wrote: “One of the meanings of Oslo was that the PLO was ... Israel’s collaborator in the task of stifling the [first] intifada and cutting short what was clearly an authentically democratic struggle for Palestinian independence.”
  • Former Israeli minister Natan Sharansky observed: “The idea of Oslo was to find a strong dictator to ... keep the Palestinians under control.”
  • Before his assassination by an Israeli terrorist, Israeli Prime Minister Yitzhak Rabin said “The Palestinians will be better at establishing internal security than we were, because they will allow no appeals to the Supreme Court and will prevent [groups like] the Association for Civil Rights in Israel from criticizing the conditions there.... They will rule by their own Self-Defense methods, freeing, and this is most important, the Israeli soldiers from having to do what they will do.”

Israel has never, not for one millisecond, genuinely wanted an independent Palestine. At best they will allow Palestine as a puppet state, with no control over its borders or international relations, ruled over by a collaborationist dictatorship. But even that is a temporary step towards Greater Israel from the Nile to the Euphrates.

[–]Dune1032 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Israel has never been offered such a huge piece of land. If Israel develops this piece of land, it will become larger and more powerful. Of course, Israeli scientists and engineers will examine whether the land can be developed before they accept the deal.

[–]UncleWillard56 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Egyptians do not want the Palestinians. They've had their fair share of the Muslim Brotherhood fucking everything up (their current government is the result of a military junta and their president is a retired military general who's been in place since 2014).

Why can't they go to Jordan? That territory was ceded to the Arabs back in 1949. That's where they should be anyway since their whole negotiating strategy has been "death to Israel" instead of a sensible division of the land between Palestinians (a meaningless term) and Israelis.

[–]Dune1032 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Egypt could give the land to the Palestinians or have the land be a state in Egypt. Where would the Palestinians go in Jordan? Jordan is already well populated. In my plan only the Palestinians in the Gaza Strip would move and just to an area adjacent to the West Bank.

[–]UncleWillard56 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Six of one...

[–]dinker 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

ToThe real problem between Muslims and Israel is that they believe that Muhammad flew to Israel on a flying donkey and that he tied his donkey up at the wailing Wall or something like that and so Muslims think that they own that property and they want it back.

I know because I prayed with Sunni Muslims for more than 10 years, but most of you got your information about Islam by reading a web page that is probably little more than propaganda.

Video: Muhammad's flying donkey

https://youtu.be/pnFKq7Avn6Q?si=pxZoCR8Xe1YC54tM