How many people here were once liberals? ✋

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[–]AntarchomachusAnarchist 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (9 children)

Not clear on what 'liberal' really means in colloquial usage anymore either tbh. Anyone 'left of center'? A neo-liberal?

Up until very recently I preferred 'liberals' to 'conservatives' (Leftists like the ACLU used to protect free speech, not the right who tended to be a bit puritanical), but don't think I've ever been a great representative of this group.

[–]VulptexVoluntaryist 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

Leftists like the ACLU used to protect free speech, not the right who tended to be a bit puritanical

It's the opposite I think. Until very recently conservatives strongly supported free speech, now all they care about is purging "degeneracy". This is because they started letting their opposition define them after the Minneapolis riots started a war between them.

Of course liberals have still only gotten even more pro-censorship themselves. The only thing protecting any freedom at all now is the power struggle.

[–]AntarchomachusAnarchist 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

It's the opposite I think. Until very recently conservatives strongly supported free speech

I'm going to challenge this. Historically it has been the evangelical christian right that has been behind the vast majority of censorship efforts in the US. Other instances have usually been related to managing public perception in times of war, which both parties have engaged in.

Journal article on the history of censorship in the US

https://journals.ala.org/index.php/jifp/article/view/7208/10294

[–]VulptexVoluntaryist 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

The fringe fire and brimstone preachers yes, but they were also historically Democrats.

[–]AntarchomachusAnarchist 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Yes...but they were still (social)conservatives. Democrats and Republicans just swapped liberal and conservative ideologies.

But yeah, the changing, ill defined nature of these words is obviously a problem

[–]VulptexVoluntaryist 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Why does it matter? And most of the same people who were social conservatives are now progressives.

[–]AntarchomachusAnarchist 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Why does it matter?

Because my original point had to do with conservatives and liberals, not democrats per se

And most of the same people who were social conservatives are now progressives.

I agree with you that these words are used in so many different ways that they are now essentially meaningless

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Not clear on what 'liberal' really means in colloquial usage anymore either tbh. Anyone 'left of center'? A neo-liberal?

The CNN/MSNBC/Reuters crowd. The people who read those sources and that's their reality.

I enjoyed talking with the neolib crowd on Reddit. Wasn't really sure what they were all about, but I just looked and they're quite insane. Still, didn't ban me for my opinion, which is more than I can say for most liberal subs.

ACLU

They should be out defending Joe Rogan for his freedom to say any number of offensive things. It's so sad that organization has gone to shit. We could really use something like the ACLU.

Up until very recently I preferred 'liberals' to 'conservatives

Same, their core values changed.

[–]AntarchomachusAnarchist 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

The CNN/MSNBC/Reuters crowd. The people who read those sources and that's their reality.

Not them, but I did used to think Jon Stewart and Steven Colbert were credible news sources.

I enjoyed talking with the neolib crowd on Reddit. Wasn't really sure what they were all about, but I just looked and they're quite insane

Yes I have an Uncle who is one of these insane people, lol