Where are all the conservative socialists in the West?

submitted by IamCleaver from self.politics

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[–]IamCleaver[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

"No, we should drop our pride and stand against it because it's wrong." Wrong because you dislike it?

"love your neighbor rather than hate your enemy," You should do both. Love those who are part of your family, your community. Hate the outsiders who wish you harm.

"Imagine an enemy takes over tomorrow and institutes their norms" Then I would go to war and try to reinstall my norms. I would not mingle with the enemy and take up his. He would probably follow my advice and try to force everyone to conform. Just because someone could use a gun against you doesn't mean you shouldn't use it against them.

"No, it's society's problem for not being able to tolerate someone different from them in even the tiniest matters." No, because the society is many and someone is ONE. One is less then many. Seven don't wait around for one.

[–]VulptexVoluntaryist 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

Wrong because you dislike it?

Wrong because it's responsible for evil and corruption and causes us to dehumanize others.

You should do both. Love those who are part of your family, your community. Hate the outsiders who wish you harm.

Even Hitler and Stalin loved those who loved them. Not only that, but contrary to your warped and instinct-driven view an outsider does not equal one who wishes you harm. Rather you are the one wishing them harm for being an outsider.

Then I would go to war and try to reinstall my norms.

Then you are exactly the same as them. What makes them bad and you good when you do exactly the same thing?

Seven don't wait around for one.

I never said they are obliged to. I said they shouldn't be allowed to beat one up and murder him. Is respecting another's basic human rights really too much to ask? And as your logic goes, it's really not all that hard.

[–]IamCleaver[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

"Wrong because it's responsible for evil and corruption and causes us to dehumanize others" Bullshit.

"Stalin" What is YOUR problem with Stalin? I have some but overall I respect him. I want to here why you compare him to Hitler (btw, comparing Stalin to Hitler is a crime where I live)

"What makes them bad and you good when you do exactly the same thing?" Nothing. I never said it anything about good and bad. There are no good and bad. Just your friends and your enemies. Those part of your society who share your values and the outsiders.

" I said they shouldn't be allowed to beat one up and murder him." I never said anyone should murder anyone. I am against the death penalty (at least for my fellow citizens). I said that if you are the minority, get conform or face the wrath of all others. For example, where I live the constitution bans gay marriages. It was passed on a referendum in a landslide. There is a small minority that think they have the "right" to gay marriages, but the society at large thinks otherwise. The society beats the desires of a minority.

[–]VulptexVoluntaryist 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

I said that if you are the minority, get conform or face the wrath of all others.

What is the difference? And why can't the others not have wrath, especially when they have not been wronged? An outcast does you no harm by existing; the others, rather, harm him? Are they sadistic? Are you sadistic? Do you enjoy the pain of others? How evil humans are!

I suppose it is impossible to reason with someone who has no morals or principles to live by. I hope you are merely misled and brainwashed. Either way I will be praying for you. I wish you the best.

[–]IamCleaver[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

"especially when they have not been wronged" Not following the socially accepted norms wronging others. You don't go naked to the mall even if it is a hot day. The society does not approve of it and you conform to that regardless of what you think of it yourself.

"morals or principles to live by" No morals or principals that you agree with you meant to say... My morals are simple and straightforward: perform your gender roles, support your family, respect your traditions, be proud of your nation, make sure everyone in you society does their part. In return, you nation owes you your basic amenities, security and protection when you need it.

[–]VulptexVoluntaryist 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

You don't go naked to the mall even if it is a hot day. The society does not approve of it and you conform to that regardless of what you think of it yourself.

It's not society that should make those decisions, it's the mall owners. If they want to lose all their business because they allow people to run around naked inside that's their own fault.

perform your gender roles

Why should I? No good will come from it. Humans seem absolutely obsessed with this for some reason and I don't know why. Especially for males. It's not good.

support your family

And friends, and those in need, and everyone really.

respect your traditions

Which ones? Some are good, some are pointless, and some are bad. Why should I respect the latter two kinds? It's better for people to think for themselves than to be blindly led off a cliff like sheep.

be proud of your nation

Whether I'm proud of something depends on its fruit. So far most things humans have done bears bad fruit.

In return, you nation owes you your basic amenities, security and protection when you need it.

Which they almost never give, nor is it even close to worth what was taken from us.

[–]IamCleaver[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

"It's not society that should make those decisions, it's the mall owners." Ok. Replace the mall with the park. BTW, I say the mall owners should have no say in how their customers dress. That is not their business.

"No good will come from it. " A healthy society with healthy families and a healthy population growth. The total sum of human happiness increases.

"Some are good, some are pointless, and some are bad." Who are you to decide which ones are which?

"be proud of your nation" Let me rephrase it for you: be a patriot.

"nor is it even close to worth what was taken from us." It is not for us to put a price on our duty.