all 16 comments

[–]wary_observer 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (12 children)

By the way, do you think nationalist or racist are necessarily bad things?

[–]fschmidt[S] 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (11 children)

I should have titled this "The worthless modern Right is only nationalist and/or racist". There is nothing wrong with nationalism or racism as long they aren't one's only values.

In the case of nationalism, it makes sense to be nationalistic if one lives in a good country. The only good country these days that I can think of is Japan, so I don't think anyone besides the Japanese should be nationalistic. Cultural values are still strong in Japan, so that works.

In the case of racism, it only works when tied to religion. Examples include Judaism, some Mennonite groups, and Black Muslims. Right-wing white racism isn't tied to anything which is why it is such a pathetic failure.

[–]wary_observer 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Japan has been geographically isolated, and ethnically and racially homogeneous for a long time. As you say, it retains a good culture to this day, when compared to the degenerate West at least. And we also know that Japanese culture remained relatively (to Europe) intact despite very recent and rapid modernization, devastating war, occupation and cultural intrusion by a foreign power.

It seems to me Japan's nationalism is tied to ethnic/cultural identity more than to religion. Religion as such seems like a subtle background element in Japanese culture when compared to the role of Hinduism or the Abrahamic religions in their respective nations. I have never been to Japan, but that is my impression from what I know about Japanese culture.

If I'm correct, this would be an example of culture or race or both being a sufficient basis for national solidarity. It would follow that religion is not always a necessary element in the same. And it would then also follow that a nationalist or racist rightist movement would not necessarily have to be "religionist" to be effective.

So, is the modern right worthless because it is "only" racist/nationalist/not tied to religion? Or is it that, besides lacking religion, it also lacks sufficient racial/national solidarity to be effective?

[–]seyda 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (9 children)

it only works when tied to religion.

It works when it's tied to nationality. The racism of Eastern Europe has helped save it from mass migration.

[–]wary_observer 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

Is Eastern Europe more racist than the West? If so, why?

[–]Vng418 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

It's the remnant of the communist rule that ironically protected people of the Eastern Bloc from the toxic cultural influence coming from the West. To a lesser degree, it can be observed among Germans from the former DDR, albeit their "cultural delay" is a lot less substantial compared to the countries such as Slovakia or Ukraine. Nowadays, the "cultural vibe" of the major cities in the Eastern Europe is practically indistinguishable from the ones in the Western parts. In the rural parts of the countries, people still seem to preserve some fragments of traditions or conservative attitudes but it's not the kind romanticized portrayal foreigners/non-Europeans often tend to dream of or imagine when it comes to Eastern Europe. People from where I live are generally racist, xenophobic and ethnocentric by default, the hate towards religious or sexual minorities is very apparent, yet - as the model atheists they are - they are fine with women dressing and behaving like sluts, promiscuity and other types of immoral behavior. Tattooed bad boys and primitive scum producing crappy rap videos, social media whores etc. are the leading type of inspiration younger generation of people follows.

[–]covac 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

yet - as the model atheists they are - they are fine with women dressing and behaving like sluts, promiscuity and other types of immoral behavior.

Would you say the people in your country are so firmly entrenched in their atheism, that they wouldn't be receptive to the idea of a return to religious (Christian) faith?

[–]wary_observer 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

people still seem to preserve some fragments of traditions... yet - as the model atheists they are - they are fine with women dressing and behaving like sluts, promiscuity and other types of immoral behavior.

Interesting observation. Why do you think they hold on to the other traditions yet are fine with promiscuity?

[–]Vng418 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Religious influence is strongest in remote areas but it has been kept alive by older generations of people mainly. Younger individuals feel the need to relocate to bigger cities (or possibly move abroad) to get better job opportunities, so the influence has been slowly dying off. I believe this is a common scenario in many, if not all, Eastern European countries because economic pressure is still high over here. People might seem to respond to certain types of stimuli such as promiscuity in media better due to relatively homogeneous demographics, which favors such a behavior over, for example, inclusion of diverse racial/ethnic/religious minorities people really have not had a long experience with. So they are the least resistant to what appeals to them the most at the moment but will eventually succumb to the greater array of stimuli sooner or later.

[–]seyda 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

Yes. Probably because they are under control of Russia. Western Europe is under control of America, and anti racism is an American export.

[–]wary_observer 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Which countries are under control of Russia?

[–]fschmidt[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I haven't been to Eastern Europe recently, but I know that they value culture and religion. I follow Hungary because that is where my family is from. Orban keeps saying that Hungary is a Christian nation, and that is why they don't welcome Muslim immigrants.

[–]wary_observer 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

They are not traditionalist because they have no traditions. They are not religious because they have no meaningful religion. They are not cultural conservatives because they no culture.

Which is why they are not true "rightists" at all. They are merely the least enthusiastic left. Actually, they are enthusiastic leftists, since nearly all self-identified "right" endorse most aspects of modernity and the sexual revolution. They are less far gone though in that they have some of the old-style tribal (ethnic) identity left. This is not very sincere or cohesive except for a very small core of dedicated individuals, and these can accomplish nothing beyond their immediate circles, given the prostrated condition of their base. The regime obviously sees this and views the right with contempt, judging by the recent acceleration of its assaults. But as, you say, it's an empty identity, and this is because the right no longer embody those virtues that once made their nation great. Only a husk or appearance is left.

The worthlessness of the modern Right can be seen in what they produce. They produce nothing of value. No good movies, no good music, no good software, no good architecture, no good anything. If they had a meaningful identity, based on tradition, religion, or culture, then they would produce things of value.

This is true, but maybe a bit harsh. Because culture is produced from the top down, and the right, such as it is, is excluded from access to positions of influence (and recently actually blacklisted as seen with the "cancel" movement), conservative or traditional-tending people can not really be expected to produce the cultural artifacts you mention. They are under attack, and that is not the time for producing art or software, at least for most people who are not already dedicated to such things. What the right should be doing is building communities, networks of trust and solidarity that will be in place before things get really rough. Since the right did not do this all these years while the left was advancing its agenda, the right is doomed.

The reason I think it's harsh though is that people who think of themselves as "right" or "conservative" do not tend to be activists. They are the opposite of the left, in that they want to be left alone, while the the left is meddlesome, intrusive. The left gains power parasitically, at the expense of normal people, centrists, conservatives, or whatever you want to call them. While the right has nothing to counteract this. By the way, I think this is one of the main reasons why cultures tend toward entropy and eventual collapse on a fairly regular schedule. Conservatives always face an uphill battle against the forces of decay.

[–]fschmidt[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

The reason I think it's harsh though is that people who think of themselves as "right" or "conservative" do not tend to be activists. They are the opposite of the left, in that they want to be left alone, while the the left is meddlesome, intrusive.

This is circular reasoning. The reason that the Right aren't activist is because they lack the things I mentioned (traditions, religion, culture). The Left is basically its own religion with its own culture. There is nothing intrinsically anti-activist about conservatism. The English Puritans were conservative and activist.

[–]wary_observer 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

What are the left's religion and culture?

[–]fschmidt[S] 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

I would say that the religion of the Left is idolatry. Rather than physical idols, they worship memes. They also have a clear culture that one can see in any clearly Leftist place, but cultures are hard to describe. Unlike the Right, the Left produces movies, music, software, etc. All of it is horrible, of course, but the Left can produce these things because they have a religion and culture to guide them.