It's a Trap

submitted by chottohen from files.catbox.moe

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[–]In-the-clouds 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (22 children)

Beware of those who deny the Lord who paid their ransom. They are responsible for their own destruction, because they have rejected God and voluntarily handed themselves over to God's adversary, who will torment them. He hates his own servants whom he has deceived. They think they will receive some reward, and they surely will, but not the reward they were promised by the father of lies. If you believe his lies, you are lost. You knew he was a liar and teaches you to lie to others, so how could you believe him when he made promises to you?

“But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.” 2 Peter 2:1

[–]Vulptex 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (21 children)

The ransom is real, but it was paid to archons and the devil in exchange for us.

[–]In-the-clouds 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (20 children)

How did God's adversary gain control over you? Why is a ransom even necessary?

You willingly departed from the state of perfection God created you in. You were created as a perfect being, fully enlightened and blissfully happy. But you followed God's adversary, rejected God, and now find yourself in a wretched state behind the boundary of time and space.

God is just, and if he did not require atonement for our sin of apostasy, he would not be a perfect God, a God of Justice, so even God must keep his own commandments, and he does, because he is the Most Perfect Spirit.

The wages of sin is death. Our sin, even the worst sin, was paid for by the death of Jesus. He paid this price for all men, but only the men that voluntarily follow the Lord will bridge the gap, and be finally free from the constraints of time and space, with no more boundaries, but living in eternity, regaining the perfection that was once lost.

It is amazing that God Himself, as the Spirit of Love, would pay our ransom through the man Jesus Christ.

[–]Vulptex 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (19 children)

God says NOT to avenge. Two wrongs don't make a right. Someone else says that, and so does his world. A truly "just" person also would not accept someone else being punished in place of the guilty party.

Galatians 3:13: Messiah bought us from the curse of the law, becoming a curse for us (because it is written, "cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree")

Galatians 4:3: When we were young, we were enslaved under the principles of the world.

Galatians 4:4-5: But when the fullness of the time came, God sent his son so he could buy us, so we could receive adoption.

Galatians 4:8: But then, not knowing God, you were enslaved to things which are not gods by nature.

Romans 3:19: We know that whatever the law says it says to those with the law, so that every mouth would be closed and the whole world would come under justice.

Romans 3:20: Because by works of the law no flesh will be justified, since what comes through law is full knowledge of error. (and who said to eat from the tree of knowledge of good and evil?)

Romans 3:21-24: But now apart from the law God's justness is through faith in the Messiah, for all who have faith to be justified freely by his goodwill through the ransom that is in Messiah.

Romans 5:10: Since if being erroneous we were bought with his death, much more, being justified, will we be saved in his life. (Note that this statement has suffered severe corruption by the Catholic church. Discount it if you wish, but Galatians still stands.)

Romans 5:20: Law snuck in so that offense would abound, so that goodwill could superabound.

be finally free from the constraints of time and space, with no more boundaries, but living in eternity, regaining the perfection that was once lost

Guess what, you're a heretic too. That's considered a gnostic view. Orthodoxy teaches that the universe is all good and we don't have spirits, only a bodily resurrection on earth. I'm glad you can at least agree that the world is not good.

[–]In-the-clouds 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (18 children)

God says vengeance belongs to him, so we are not to avenge ourselves. We should not seek revenge on our own, but let Him decide what is right. God is the Righteous Judge.

You make the point that it would not be right to allow someone else to be punished for your sin. And if you are separate from Jesus, then what you said applies to you: you are not forgiven.

Those of us that are one with Jesus are forgiven. We are no more two separate people, but one being. Jesus in me, I in him, and He in the Father. These three are one. The man whose sins are forgiven is one with the man who took the punishment.

We are one when we walk in the spirit with Jesus. Those with a carnal mind are not one with Jesus. Romans 8:7 But why should I, a heretic to you, waste your time any further? Maybe you have something more important to do.

[–]Vulptex 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (17 children)

Any competent judge would see that as an obvious loophole. You aren't giving God enough credit. He clearly prefers mercy to the human idea of justice, and what makes you think he's bound to fulfill the latter? If someone wrongs you and you don't want to retaliate, do you have to punish yourself? Much more logical that there are two opposing parties at play. The evil rulers of this realm accepted being allowed to kill Jesus in exchange for us. Not realizing he could overcome death. This was quite a popular belief in ancient times and is clearly the original concept.

The truth isn't decided by what "Christianity" says, so when there's an obvious problem with things like "God sacrificed himself to himself to appease the human idea of justice", don't be afraid to recognize it! Many people think faith means believing whatever you're told and never questioning any of it. In constrast Jesus was frustrated with the Pharisees and even his own followers because of their allegiance to religious codes and refusal to reason.

[–]In-the-clouds 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (16 children)

If I am an heretic, then why are you wasting your time on me? Are you trying to convert me? What is your reward if you convince me to depart from the light, and to enter the darkness? And do you really believe you would receive the reward you were promised?

You imply that God is unjust for letting Jesus take the punishment for my sins, and you imply that God is incompetent, because this is some "loophole". You also make God's adversary appear greater, as if God needed their permission to be reconciled with us, as if God answers to them.

How did the creature become greater than the Creator?

According to you, the enemy agreed to let us return to God in heaven if they were allowed to kill Jesus. Even if they had made such a promise, why would they ever keep it? They are liars.

God is All Powerful and there is nothing they could do to stop Him from taking our souls back. But He gave us free will and He will never force us to come back to Him.

God's Spirit was in the man Jesus when He died on the cross, showing His greater than great love for us. He proved He is the most worthy Lord over all creation, a God we can trust. No one loves us more than Him. His love is infinite. When we believe this, our immense guilt of sin is removed. Yes, God loves us. He wants us to come home. We do not ever have to doubt His love again.

[–]Vulptex 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (15 children)

This is basically asking, "Can God make a rock God can't move?". Your guess is as good as mine, and neither of our stances have an adequate answer to that question. Taking the devil and archons out of the equation doesn't solve the problem, because you'd think an all-powerful being wouldn't need to provide an atonement at all. He could simply dismiss everything on a whim. In fact he could share his message with everyone and immediately pull anyone who wants out of the world out.

Frankly trapping souls should be impossible in any case. The only thing I can conceive of is that they're using some kind of mind trick to make us forget everything outside of our current lives, including how to leave their world (and "you must pay for your sins" is their excuse to keep it going). I don't know what's keeping them from lying, perhaps they can't for some reason, or perhaps an agreement was necessary for the sake of free will, both theirs and ours. I don't know if we can ever have a good answer while we're here. But I try to point people to the way out so they don't stick around for much longer. Many are convinced this world is all that is, and will return endless times until they find the truth.

[–]In-the-clouds 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (14 children)

I try to point people to the way out

You give no way out that makes any sense. What is the reward you expect to receive for your work here?

The only way out is Jesus. God's word gives us the answers, but few read it. And you claim it is corrupt, so you only put doubt into the minds of your readers. You offer no hope. Why do you continue to do that? What is your hope? Some reward?

The only thing I can conceive of is that they're using some kind of mind trick to make us forget everything outside of our current lives

You give the adversary too much credit. God removed man's memories. Why? So that man can take a test of free will. Man already rejected God once. That is why he is here in this world, which belongs to the god of this world. Many of the original spirits voluntarily followed the adversary, the first created spirit, who is the opposite of God. If man remembered his past, he would follow God out of fear, and not out of love. It is a dreadful experience to be cut off from God's love. Man would follow God out of fear only if he could remember how bad it is to be outside of God's love.

Man's will is being tested. The greatest commandment is to love God above all. The memories had to be removed so that man could have another opportunity to demonstrate who or what he loves the most. Whoever or whatever you love the most is your master. I am glad to have the faithful God of love and peace as my Master.

He could simply dismiss everything on a whim.

There is something he cannot dismiss, and that is man's guilt. When man remembers his past apostasy, he will remember his guilt, how he rejected God. How will man realize he is forgiven if he does not believe that Jesus endured the cross because of his greater than great love for man whom he created? When a man believes his Lord performed the act of salvation on his behalf, he will believe and know that he is loved and forgiven.

If you reject this truth, you are still in darkness (deceived... confused) and unforgiven, by your own choice. I pray for you, that you will break free from the adversary's lies.

[–]Vulptex 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (13 children)

I think you largely agree with me and simply see it in a different manner. Indeed, guilt is a fundamental aspect of the matrix system. Outside of it people would suffer from their own guilt, not be burned forever as most say. I think you're on the right trajectory. You do understand some spiritual concepts, though they may not all be the same ones I do.

I haven't really thought about what rewards I might earn. And if I were overly concerned with that, it would make my motives very questionable. Am I doing this for others' benefit or my own? I do see hope, hope of one day no longer being enslaved in this matrix world run by demons, free from all problems and fate and control. You claim I say to avoid light, which I do not. I warn about false light, that which appears as light to the eye but is actually darkness.