U.S. Abrams tanks withdrawn from front in Ukraine.

submitted by Dune1032 from msn.com

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[–]weavilsatemyface 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

They're being withdrawn because they're shit that cannot survive in a modern battlefield against a peer adversary. Even the Houthis were able to defeat them.

This war has been such an embarrassment to the west. Every single of their Wunderwaffen have turned out to under-perform badly. Patriots can't shoot down missiles -- never have, never will. The only confirmed kills they have in something like 30 years is two friendly fire incidents where they shot down fighter planes on their own side 😂

Challengers are so poorly suited to Ukrainian conditions that they have hardly seen combat at all. Bradleys are not bad but aren't going to change the course of the war. Abrams burn just as well as Leopards, but cost more and perform worse. Stormshadows started off well but the Russians adapted to them and now they're just so-so. American 155mm artillery tubes wear out after just a week of combat, or at least they would if the Ukrainians had any 155mm shells left to fire.

And NATO training is only good for getting people killed -- and I don't mean the enemy.

[–]Smalls 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

Bradleys most certainly changed the course of the war. It's not always about firepower, either. This war is showing how all tanks are being defeated with drones. We're in a new era of warfare. Like u/Dune1032 stated, Ukraine is being used, in part, as a testing ground for old (and probably some new, un-reported) technologies for the U.S. with no official troop losses for the U.S.

[–]weavilsatemyface 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Bradleys most certainly changed the course of the war.

In what way?

This war is showing how all tanks are being defeated with drones.

Yes, drones have shifted the balance of power away from tanks. But you'll notice that Russia has adapted and is still able to use tanks effectively while Ukraine cannot.

What was hilarious was all the NAFO idi0ts laughing at Russia for putting up "cope cages" early in the war... until Ukraine started doing the same.

[–]Smalls 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Like your other comment, the Bradley is an infantry support vehicle (although it has been used in armored combat to some effectiveness). It is superior to anything else on the battlefield in Ukraine and with Ukraine having the shortfall of troops compared to Russia, they need all the help they can get. They not only outgun and outmaneuver, but also keep the guys inside alive more often to fight another day.

[–]weavilsatemyface 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

the Bradley ... is superior to anything else on the battlefield in Ukraine

I'm not saying this to downplay the bravery and skill of the two Bradley teams that took on and defeated the T90M, but they were only able to do so because they caught the tank at close range in a village where their maneuverability and the available cover prevented the tank from hitting them. Had the tank caught them in an open field at longer range, the T90M's main gun would have destroyed the pair of them in two shots. The Bradley is a good Infantry Fighting Vehicle, but they don't have a main battle tank's armour and a T90M would have eaten them for breakfast out in the open.

According to people who compare these sorts of things, the Russian BM-3 IFV is "clearly better" than the Bradley -- lower profile, lighter, faster, more maneuverable, with better weapons. Perhaps the only reason we haven't seen more of them is that with slightly less armour than the Bradley they are more vulnerable to drones. In a one-on-one shootout between a BMP-3 and the Bradley, most people expect the BMP-3 to win.

The Bradley comes with two TOW missiles, but because they are wire-guided it has to come to an almost full stop to fire them, not what you want to do if the tank you are firing at has you in its sights. The BMP-3 has only a single ATGM pre-loaded but it can fire it from full speed and reload from inside the vehicle for a second shot.

[–]Smalls 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Yeah. I meant that the Bradley is superior to anything in its class. My bad.

Better in some aspects, but does that mean better on this battlefield? Is it better to be in a machine with more chance of survivability during assault that can see the enemy before they can see you? Which areas do you compromise for the better advantage?

I think this comes down to how many does each side have and how they use them. Each has is advantages and each is capable given the training/experience of the crews.