Mission accomplished boys!
It's like the government actively doesn't want to be re-elected at this point.
If your going by the polling numbers there is something like a <5% of liberals forming government. (If there was an election today.)
They know they are done and no chance of reelection. So if your going down you might as well do whatever you want at this point.
Including not allowing real elections.
Whaddya gonna do, vote em out next time?
Meh, it's the march of tech. Does anyone really think it's better to carry around ten gallons of flammable liquid and start a series of small fires to make your car go forward? Electric is just the right answer.
If it's just the "march of tech", then leave it to the market.
Unfortunately we don't have a free market wrt fuel:
Globally, fossil fuel subsidies were $7 trillion in 2022 or 7.1 percent of GDP.
Now do (((green))) energy, fag
Does anyone really think it's better to carry around ten gallons of flammable liquid
Absolutely. My car is 19 years old and runs great, it can even run on up to 85% ethanol if it has to, it's worth almost as much as when I bought it, and might go for another 130k miles.
If that had been an electric car it would destined to be scrap. It'd be up for its second $10k battery replacement, if the first was even an economically sensible option.
I also don't drive a lot. There'd be almost exactly the same amount of gas in the car in a month if I didn't use it much than it has today. Batteries constantly discharge. You get 10 years to a battery, ~200k miles from an engine if you're lucky. For people who don't drive much, we're burning through less value with low mileage cars than with a battery that will only live so long.
If that had been an electric car it would destined to be scrap.
If it had been an electric car it wouldn't exist. There are no 2004 old electric cars. The General Motors EV1 was discontinued in 2002, the Toyota RAV4 EV wasn't made 2004-2011, and the first Tesla Roadster didn't come out until 2008.
Batteries are getting better. They go something in the 10-20 year range, so with respect to a car bought today, when it's 19, it'll be about halfway through it's first $10,000 battery replacement. But the fuel costs would be about a third, so if you drive an average amount, your battery is paid for if it goes about 16 years, and still costs $10,000 at that time.
Of course you still save money because there's no plugs and no oil changes and there's only a single speed transmission, meaning your maintenance costs are about half.
Batteries constantly discharge.
Set the charge limit to something like 80%, and leave it plugged in. That way it can run cooling across the battery if it gets hot, and it will be at 80% in three months when you next drive it.
If it had been an electric car it wouldn't exist. There are no 2004 old electric cars
That's irrelevant to the point at hand, it's a thought experiment. We can determine what's going to happen in the future from what would be happening today if electric cars were readily available 20 years ago.
Batteries are getting better.
Which probably won't apply retroactively to older cars with older battery tech. Their lifespan will limited by the batteries available to them now.
They go something in the 10-20 year range, so with respect to a car bought today,
I've heard 10 years on the outset although it can be half that. Oddly enough these massive batteries are just a bunch of 18650s connected together. Vape batteries.
Set the charge limit to something like 80%, and leave it plugged in. That way it can run cooling across the battery if it gets hot, and it will be at 80% in three months when you next drive it.
I have no place to plug in a car. Lots of people don't. You can carry a can of gas to a car, you can't carry a charging station.
That's irrelevant to the point at hand, it's a thought experiment.
The relevance is that you're looking at battery life and battery cost at the very dawn of the technology.
We can determine what's going to happen in the future from what would be happening today if electric cars were readily available 20 years ago.
Only if you disregard advancements in battery design and cost.
I've heard 10 years on the outset although it can be half that.
Less than 5% of EVs from 2013 have had their battery replaced. This chart from this page.
And that was 10 years ago. Now you will get a 8 year guarantee from the manufacturer, so if it can be "half that" the replacement will be at the manufacturers expense.
You can carry a can of gas to a car, you can't carry a charging station.
I've never run out of fuel or change. But if you do and you were driving an ICE, you will damage the fuel pump, an EV will be fine once you recharge it. You will, as you point out, need a tow, (or an extension chord, or a friend with one of those EVs that can charge a stranded EV, or a boot full of PV panels and a few hours of sunny day)
The relevance is that you're looking at battery life and battery cost at the very dawn of the technology.
That will still apply in 20 years to the aged electric cars that are new now.
Only if you disregard advancements in battery design and cost.
As I said, that won't necessarily apply to the cars of today. It's likely not going to be a plug and play solution. You'd have to retrofit the old cars with the new batteries if it's possible at all.
And you're banking on technology that doesn't exist yet. Maybe we never find a better solution than Lithium batteries.
Less than 5% of EVs from 2013 have had their battery replaced.
Because they can't afford to drop in a new $10k battery?
But if you do and you were driving an ICE, you will damage the fuel pump
You can damage the fuel pump. It's not guaranteed. But that's easy to avoid by acting like the last little bits of gas don't exist. Electric cars have their battery lifespans affected dropping below 20% or being charged over 80%.
That will still apply in 20 years to the aged electric cars that are new now.
We're certainly much better in terms of energy density now that we were 10 years ago. We can't tell if the claims of lifetime will hold, but the claims of that have improved a lot too.
You'd have to retrofit the old cars with the new batteries if it's possible at all.
If there's a market, they'll make them. If there's not, the old batteries are working fine.
And you're banking on technology that doesn't exist yet. Maybe we never find a better solution than Lithium batteries.
Technological improvements in Li-Ion batteries do exist. Recent Developments in Lithium-ion Battery Technolog
Because they can't afford to drop in a new $10k battery?
Maybe they're dealing with a large reduction in range. But they'll be more than that much better off than if they'd been driving an ICE and paying for fuel and maintenance.
You can damage the fuel pump. It's not guaranteed. But that's easy to avoid by acting like the last little bits of gas don't exist.
Sure. By the same token EV owners don't tend to get stranded either.
Electric cars have their battery lifespans affected dropping below 20% or being charged over 80%.
Not by dropping below. By remaining below for an extended period of time.
If there's a market, they'll make them. If there's not, the old batteries are working fine
You think they're still going to make batteries for a Tesla mk 3 in 20 years?
It just doesn't have to be possible to fix the battery issue in older EV, it would have to be economical.
It's important people are able to buy cheap cars for a couple thousand (used to be a couple hundred) that will get a person from place A to place B. If there isn't you strip mobility from a significant amount of the population, one that only seems to be growing these days. I don't see that working with an EV market.
Sure. By the same token EV owners don't tend to get stranded either.
Well, having to spend hours charging seems a bit like getting stranded constantly temporarily.
Not by dropping below. By remaining below for an extended period of time.
That's not my understanding. From what I read about my phone's battery, which should apply here, the battery has only so many charge cycles and the point of doing the 80/20 charging strategy is to reduce the amount of full charge cycles. Going too high or low means using a charge cycle. I'm not 100% about that though, I'd have to look into it.
You think they're still going to make batteries for a Tesla mk 3 in 20 years?
If there's a market.
It's important people are able to buy cheap cars for a couple thousand (used to be a couple hundred) that will get a person from place A to place B.
It's really not.
If there isn't you strip mobility from a significant amount of the population
Owning a cheap and dangerous car that damages biodiversity, infrastructure and agricultural productivity isn't the only mobility choice.
Well, having to spend hours charging seems a bit like getting stranded constantly temporarily.
No one spends hours charging if they're not stopped for the night. 20 mins will get you from 20 to 80%. I the general case if you take a piss, you're good to go. If you drink a coffee, you're full.
From what I read about my phone's battery, which should apply here, the battery has only so many charge cycles and the point of doing the 80/20 charging strategy is to reduce the amount of full charge cycles.
I believe that it's being below 20 that reduces the battery life, not getting there:
Low levels of charge.The battery will last longer if it is generally around a third to half charged.Plug your car into a charger when you’re at home.
Owning a cheap and dangerous car that damages biodiversity, infrastructure and agricultural productivity isn't the only mobility choice.
Better make sure to take their guns before people are relegated to being serfs again.
Bro you're talking points are the epitomy of stupidity. How much flammable energy exists in a battery pack? You know electric cars fires are way harder to put out and tend to reignite days later. You should delete this comment and consider thinking before posting in the future.
What happens when the grid can't support charging all these cars? You'll be stuck with 4000lb paperweight. The market can decide. When electric is really a better alternative, guess what? People will buy them!
I see you're living up to your username. Yes, electric car fires exist. They're also far rarer.
By percentage? Citation needed
The tech isn't ready yet and I doubt it will be by 2035.
Also there is this:
https://globalnews.ca/news/10103753/electric-car-shock-50000-battery/
Since this story broke more people have been coming out of the wood work with stories of battery replacements in the $50-$60k range.
For passenger vehicles, sure. Solid state, phase change, and molecular distortion batteries will only push that energy density to more ridiculous extremes over time. For farm vehicles, heavy use trucks, and any number of other vehicles, you're going to be using the decomposed sludges of the carboniferous era 300 million years ago until probably the end of the 21st century. Just because its too much hassle to fit new tech to every niche right away.
Kind of how they have 2 cycle engines for chainsaws, it saves weight, and these things aren't exactly guzzling a billion gallons a day, so emissions from that niche use are not important. Until other tech catches up, and people are like "hey, most of these sub 45cc chainsaws are more practical to use batteries now!" And the 60cc-125cc chainsaws... Well, give it another 30 years. But that technology, its not even 20th century, we're going back to the 19th century for the base tech, which has been improved quite a lot, but is not fundamentally different.
For farm vehicles, heavy use trucks, and any number of other vehicles, you're going to be using the decomposed sludges of the carboniferous era 300 million years ago until probably the end of the 21st century.
Except for farm vehicles and heavy trucks, which are already available in electric.
i bet you don't own an electric car...
I have no problem with electric cars, but what Tom said above is relevant. When it's cold enough, battery packs aren't efficient. Canada is a whole different equation than southern California.
I vastly prefer it to lugging around a massive, flammable battery. Electric power has to be converted from something else, and it's generally easier to just use the something else when it comes to transport.
A normal car can very easily carry it's 100lb or so fuel tank, but lugging a battery weighing how many hundreds? A thousand?
Brain, how much does a typical EV battery weigh?
"The weight of an electric vehicle (EV) battery can vary significantly depending on the type of vehicle and the capacity of the battery. Typically, EV batteries can weigh anywhere from around 200 kilograms (440 pounds) for smaller cars to over 600 kilograms (about 1,300 pounds) for larger vehicles or those with greater range.
For example, the battery in a Tesla Model S weighs approximately 540 kilograms (about 1,200 pounds), while smaller EVs like the Nissan Leaf have batteries that weigh around 300 kilograms (660 pounds). These weights are for the entire battery pack, which includes not only the cells themselves but also the casing, cooling system, and other components necessary for the battery's operation.
The weight of the battery is a significant factor in the overall design and performance of an electric vehicle, as it impacts the vehicle's weight distribution, efficiency, and range."
Jeezus...
This is an arbitrary line in the sand. Personally I welcome electric cars: no oil to change, options to charge at home, instant torque from 0mph, and less complicated gear boxes (at least for now). Range and charging issues remain a problem for many people. If you rarely drive more than 250 miles a day, they're fine, but in large countries like Canada and the US it's not unusual for people drive 350+ per day which is already a long drive. Nobody wants to add 45 minutes to that to recharge nor do they want to be stuck stopping to eat only at places within walking distance to a charger.
There are major problems yet to be addressed: higher battery density, faster charging, and lighter weight. I have no confidence that we'll solve all of that in 11 years.
Can't wait for the shitty libs to be ousted next election.
When you idiots wanting electric cars find the power grid unable to keep up with demand, don’t say you weren’t warned lol.
Hydrogen or formic acid would work fine for Canada.
Electrons might work if they figure out batteries for that climate; in 2019 they didn't know why Li-batteries would lose capacity in cold weather apparently, which kind of shows how little people (or well the people with research budgets) care about fringe countries.
Burning hydrocarbons might also work, but who wants a car with so many moving parts?
Me! I love me some moving parts, when lubricated with yummy, slippy OIL!
Are we still talking about cars?
I don't want a car; I want a spatial dimension shift device.
Tom_Bombadil |8 pointswritten 4 months ago ago
Zero travel in winter