A quarter year in the making - "world's second best army"'s incredible backward advance through Ukraine

submitted by Site_sux from i.redd.it

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[–]SoCo 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (5 children)

I don't try to decipher, evaluate, or grade Putin's claim. I simply just don't dishonestly deny it exists. I especially don't pretend that his biased detractors' assumptions about what evil motivations he might possibly have in his mind, which contradict what he's spoken, are based in any kind of reality.

[–]Site_sux[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

what evil motivations he might possibly have in his mind, which contradict what he's spoken

Again you're being dishonest. Either that, or the confidence with which you write is unearned because you don't actually know what Putin said.

You have claimed that I'm gaslighting by assuming the run on Kyiv was a total failure, because Putin didn't say he wanted to take over Ukraine. You're wrong about that, and wrong about what gaslighting means.

Here's what he thinks of ukraine, he has in fact been quite clear on the matter. He believes Ukraine is a fake nation of confused russians.

https://web.archive.org/web/20220101002027/https://en.kremlin.ru/events/president/news/66181

https://youtu.be/W57I2mzAr9c

[–]SoCo 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (3 children)

You keep calling me dishonest, but fail to show that I am.

You do continue to dishonestly misrepresent what I say...

I've never commented on the success or failure of any military operation. I have suggested that speculating motivation, based on the success or failure outcome, was completely illogical. I've also called your repeating of propaganda projecting Russia's evil world domination intentions, to be baseless gaslighting, as it is.

You simplify a complex situation, where Ukraine, with mostly a Russian heritage, has worked to erase that, which is arguably possibly some level of genocide, has violated treaties, and shouldn't have been allowed by Russia, or any other conscious bearing nation, to be manipulated so much by the US and UN, arguably who covertly overthrew their government and installed a puppet leader in 2014, simply for choosing Russia over the US+UN for a trade deal.

All these things are arguable and come with many perspective, but it isn't very honest to ignore them and pretend some conveniently simplified projection.

[–]Site_sux[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

I have suggested that speculating motivation, based on the success or failure outcome, was completely illogical

It would be one thing if we had watched the Russian army perform a "raid on a compound" and were speculating who might have lived there, what inspired the raid, what the RFAF might have taken from the compound and so on. Then, if I had declared "this raid was a failure!" you would be right to call me out, for sounding so certain of a speculative topic.

The reality here is something totally different though. The RFAF sent tens of thousands of men and vehicles to the major cities of the country it was invading, then turned around and left, with absolutely mind blowing casualty and destruction rate. There is no speculation: it's very clear that their attack failed. You've already agreed that there probably wasn't a secret mission happening around those major cities, the success of which, might excuse the incredible casualties. The first stage of this war was an absolute failure for Russia, you cannot deny it with "well they never explicitly said they intended to capture those cities!"

Now we come to the other dishonesties.

covertly overthrew their government and installed a puppet leader in 2014,

That's a lie and it's totally unsubstantiated. Ukraine experienced a revolution of dignity in 2014 after dictator Yanukovic cancelled elections. Nobody appointed the chocolatier except the ukrainian electorate.

erase that, which is arguably possibly some level of genocide

There is a nation which is committing mass rape and genocide today, and it's not ukraine. The enablers of the orcish hordes are going to swing. How can you see the ongoing terrorism of Kramatorsk train station, the Mariupol theatre, kremenchuk shopping center - and worry about the fate of poor russia. That's how I know you're either lying or severely broken in the brain

[–]SoCo 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

This reminds me of every comment thread on Reddit and why I hated it so much.....sorry bro, I've lost interest in your conspiracy sermon.

[–]Site_sux[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

It's a lot easier to tell lies when everyone in the bubble already believes you, isn't it