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[–]penelopepnortneyBecome ungovernable 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (13 children)

but none of this explains how Russia would beat an adversary that has five times the military capacity.

Because I think your premise is bunk. But we'll see who's right in the event such a head-on confrontation comes to pass.

those countries would have to forego their trade relationships with NATO countries. Not going to happen

I don't agree that Russia would have to rely on other countries, and I certainly disagree that in the event it were necessary other countries would not come to their aid. Russia has more friends throughout the world than the West does, they are benefiting now from relationships established during the Soviet era throughout the global south. And in case you hadn't noticed, many countries in the "Rest of the World" are lining up to join BRICS; and while it's true all its members - including Russia and China - haven't closed the door on trading with the West, they are also setting up a system where they can engage in trade according to each member's own national interests without having to tolerate Western bullies telling them what they can and cannot do.

It makes no sense to escalate tensions. If Russia were to do that

They're not planning to, but they've said they will achieve the objectives they set out at the beginning of the war. They've also said they will not attack NATO countries UNLESS those countries attack them first. As for nukes, I think the greatest danger is from the US where you have utter morons talking about "limited nuclear war" being an option.

The non-Western world is watching what the West has tried to do to Russia because they realize it can and in some cases has already been done to them - the seizing of Russia's reserves, the attempt to destroy the Russian economy with sanctions, the 2014 coup that led to a civil war on its borders.

Sanctions are considered economic warfare and a violation of international law but as everyone knows, the West routinely violates international law in favor of the more pliable "rules-based order" - as one pundit put it, we make the rules, you follow our orders. So no, I don't think Russia will be isolated; I think they'd get lots of support if they ended up taking on the dreaded beast of Western hegemony. Actually, they've already done this by drawing and defending clear lines in the sand about their own survival and security interests.

[–]YoMamma 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (12 children)

You can't argue with the numbers and with the development of NATO over the decades, and its purpose. Moreover, you seem to think Russia has 5x the power than it does.

[–]penelopepnortneyBecome ungovernable 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (10 children)

It's a matter of which sources you trust and we obviously trust different ones.

[–]YoMamma 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (9 children)

It's easy to corroborate military numbers merely by searching for them. There isn't a massive difference between resources for information like that. Anyone who has a problem with one resource can bring up other resources as evidence. In the present case the numbers are verifiable. This isn't a matter of opinion.

[–]penelopepnortneyBecome ungovernable 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (8 children)

Only if you think all sources are equally credible and trustworthy. Not sure why you're beating this obviously dead horse - as I said, I trust what my sources are saying and it's a far cry from what you're claiming. So hold to your opinion, no one is asking you to change it, but quit trying to change mine because you won't.

[–]YoMamma 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (7 children)

It's ridiculous to assume that everything online cannot be used. What sources are you using? No one is saying they're trustworthy or equally credible. What you can do is check those sources against other sources. You're not doing that. You're just doing a Trumpist "fake news" claim with no evidence or logic, in order to shut down any argument you don't like, in favor of your claims, which are entirely without evidence or logic.

[–]penelopepnortneyBecome ungovernable 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

What an ass you are.

[–]YoMamma 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (5 children)

for responding to your lies?

[–]3andfro 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Lies? Please be more specific about where u/penelopepnortney has lied. I see only challenges to your claims, which reflect the approved story (aka, the official narrative). You appear to believe it, and that's your choice.

However: If you can entertain the idea that you might be misled about any aspect of that conflict--historical or current--perhaps spend some time seeking out countering views across the widest range of opinion you can find. A little uncertainty might ensue.

Or not.

[–]penelopepnortneyBecome ungovernable 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

They've made up their mind, don't confuse 'em with facts.

[–]penelopepnortneyBecome ungovernable 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

For the bossy lecturing, as though you have something to teach us here when you're just another internet rube with an opinion.

[–]YoMamma 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

So - anyone who argues with you is engaged in "bossy lecturing". Sorry if I offended you. I didn't want to explain at length my argument, as I assumed you would understand my disagreements.

[–]YoMamma 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

You can't argue with the numbers and with the development of NATO over the decades, and its purpose. The NATO countries are also wealthier, can arm themselves better, and everyone knows their capability. Moreover, you seem to think Russia has 5x the power than it does. It's like you refuse to look at the facts.