They can dish it out but can't take it

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[–]cephyrious 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (16 children)

If a black person teases someone for their, let's say, lame sneakers and you call them the N-word, you kind of deserve what you get. N-word is clearly a big escalation. So I kinda see their point. But probably, they were being more mean than addressing footwear :>

EDIT: A lot of people seem to interpret what I said into a defense of escalating to violence. Clearly, violence is not justified in any moral or legal sense. But it is a consequence you need to take into account before escalating "making fun of" to "racial slurs". It's like John McClane standing in Harlem with the sign in Die Hard 3. He is likely to get an ass-whooping even though turning to violence is morally and legally wrong.

[–]Alienhunter糞大名 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (11 children)

I have very little sympathy for anyone in these sorts of altercations. The guy escalating the shit gets clocked? No shit what did you expect. The guy that's throwing the punches because he got called a naughty word, dude it's a word chill the fuck out.

Both parties are idiots.

[–]cephyrious 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (8 children)

For sure getting physical after the N-word is ALSO an escalation that can lead to more violence. No disagreement there. But there certainly is a spectrum of possibilities between (and within each of) "making fun of" and "being called a slur". The linked post is right about that, and while escalating to violence isn't correct, it's within the realm of possibility to expect. Just like rape is always wrong, but if a beautiful woman walks out near naked on a town square at night in Kairo, it is to be expected. The rapists are wrong, the victim is innocent, but reality is what it is.

[–]Alienhunter糞大名 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

Going up to some black person and calling him a nigger to his face is an escalation, and getting clocked for it is part of the no shit Sherlock school of consequences. The person being called a nigger shouldn't be responding with violence. But there really are very few situations where violence is the preferable action, since invariably it will simply escalate shit.

Take something else not verbal at all. Some mother fucker who hates you comes up and purposely pours their soda over your head itching for a fight. You can either give him what he wants, which is an excuse to beat the shit out of you. Or you can just peace out and let the cops deal with it. You would be the victim, you would certainly be morally justified in responding with violence, but should you? How does it benefit you to do so?

It's very different than a rape victim situation. While it's absolutely true that anyone should try to avoid dangerous situations, but walking around alone at night isn't in any manner wrong, you aren't antagonizing anyone, in that case while you might expect bad things to happen, it's a very different thing than going around intentionally trying to start shit.

[–]wylanderuk 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Take something else not verbal at all. Some mother fucker who hates you comes up and purposely pours their soda over your head itching for a fight. You can either give him what he wants, which is an excuse to beat the shit out of you. Or you can just peace out and let the cops deal with it. You would be the victim, you would certainly be morally justified in responding with violence, but should you? How does it benefit you to do so?

Can show that you will not be pushed any further and can stop future abuse even if you lose. Sometimes violence is the answer, sometimes being the "bigger man" and walking away just puts a big fucking "kick me sign" over your head.

[–]Alienhunter糞大名 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Violence is sometimes the answer. Usually in response to violence itself.

Words are not violence, neither is silence, despite the rhyme.

sometimes being the "bigger man" and walking away just puts a big fucking "kick me sign" over your head.

Maybe but I tend to think the message is more something along the lines of "you are so far beneath me it's not worth the trouble to awknoledge your existence".

[–]wylanderuk 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Words are not violence, neither is silence, despite the rhyme.

Yup they are not, but sometimes they are a justifiable excuse/reason. But I will point out that if the person that starts the verbal altercation generally in my eyes loses virtually all of the justification because they started it.

sometimes being the "bigger man" and walking away just puts a big fucking "kick me sign" over your head.

Maybe but I tend to think the message is more something along the lines of "you are so far beneath me it's not worth the trouble to awknoledge your existence".

It is always situational, if its a one off interaction? Then yeah trying to disengage is probably the best response, but of its a pattern of behaviours that will continue that puts it in a different light. At lest in my eyes.

[–]LyingSpirit472 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

But ultimately, that ties to the same point. "Fighting words" are a thing, and as we established "you say that, getting clocked for it is part of the no shit Sherlock school of consequences"; then it also stands to reason as well "the black person probably shouldn't respond to being called that with violence, but at the same time, no one would blame them if they DID respond with violence." Same with the person pouring their soda over your head itching for a fight- you don't HAVE to respond with violence, but no one would blame you for doing it either.

In both cases, it's "you intentionally tried to start shit, and you escalated shit to a point where a reasonable person would understand if someone chose to escalate it to violence. You fucked around, you found out. No sympy."

[–]Alienhunter糞大名 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

Agreed but let me put it from a personal experience.

I'm at some bar I'm a regular at. Some fucking Ozzie cunt comes in and starts being a typical sexpat. His antics are humorous at first, because it's utterly hilarious watching him swing and a miss at every chick in the bar. Funny shit. The night goes on this guy gets drunker and more and more frustrated so he starts to do with drunk Ozzie cunts do best, start to fight shit. Guy tries to pick a fight with me, starts pushing me and shit. I just get up and leave my table. No point in fighting a drunk idiot.

You could call me a pussy and you'd be right. But I went to the manger and got his ass tossed on the street. You could call me a Karen and you'd be right. I'm a pussy ass Karen that isn't banned from the bar. I also just won your stupid "fight" without throwing a single punch.

Names are just that. He's trying to escalate shit. I would be justified in fighting back. But what does it benefit me? I prove my bravado to some drunk idiot? Why? No point.

It's not about not standing up for yourself. It's about not being stupid. Chosing your battles. Some idiot dumbass wants to throw down? Why should I care if he thinks I'm a pussy ass Karen lol. His opinion is worth less than the dirt he's gonna end up sleeping in.

[–]LyingSpirit472 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

And even then, the same point is there. Most people don't have the "if you say fighting words to me, I'll ignore you. If you push me around, I'll ignore you. If you pull a gun out and shoot me- why, then, I'll do my harshest attack and say 'you aren't a very nice person'!" levels of restraint. There's some actions where- even if you think it's stupid to choose this battle, the fact that you even said "you would be justified in fighting back" means that it's...well, justified if someone chose to fight back, and thus you can't really blame someone if they chose to pick this battle.

In the example, it was there- just because you chose to go to the manager and get the guy kicked out instead of accepting the fight he wanted, the same thing was there: The guy fucked around, he found out. Whether it was from 'he gets beaten up' or 'he gets kicked from the bar', his actions had consequences. BUT, in that instance it's the same thing as what's said- the drunk idiot was lucky he tried to start shit with someone who'd just get him banned from the bar instead of someone who'd put him in the hospital OR the morgue for pulling that shit, because you're just as likely to find someone like that as someone who wouldn't.

[–]Aanglol 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

If Someone calls me a retard/fag/loser/fat/nerd/ugly/tranny , am I justified in beating them into a coma? Since they started it by insulting me. Can you blame me for doing so?

If a bully gets shot by the person they bullied, would you feel sorry for the bully? After all the bully technically fucked around and found out. Can you really blame the bullying victim for resorting to violence , even on Extreme level by pulling out a gun?

[–]JasonCarswellSisyphus / Ouroboros 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

^

[–]DirewolfGhost 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Not all homos are sapien.

[–]Dragonerne 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

I can't tell if you're joking, but in case you're not, you deserve what you get too.

[–]Keri10[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Would you opinion change if a gay/trans person is making fun of someone and the person responds with an anti-gay/anti-trans/ slur? What if the person being mocked decided to respond by making fun of the teasers dead relatives/friends?

[–]Alienhunter糞大名 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

My opinion is simply that while incitement to violence in such matters should not be looked on favorably, the violence itself also should not be looked on favorably. Yes you shouldn't give the person who is trying to provoke a violent reaction exactly what they want.

I'm not going to stand around and take abuse from someone like this, because eventually I will get angry enough to clock them. So it's best to just peace out and let them deal with an ever shrinking circle of people who will put up with that shit.

That applies to anyone who is out intentionally out griefing with people, regardless of if they are trying to play victim or victimizer.

[–]cephyrious 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Any verbal escalation brings with it the possibility of violence. If you are not prepared for that, don't escalate. I am not saying violence is justified, just that it is a very real possibility you need to take into account. Go outside a mosque in any Western country and burn a pile of qurans. You are (probably) not doing anything illegal. Any physical consequence of this will be immoral and illegal. But if you do it without considering being physically attacked as a very likely consequence you are being an absolute moron.