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[–][deleted] 6 insightful - 4 fun6 insightful - 3 fun7 insightful - 4 fun -  (82 children)

women should be able to own property, take public office, vote

Women voting has led to nothing good.

[–]QueenBread 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (72 children)

I'm a woman. Are you telling me I should not be allowed to vote? Am I inferior to a man then?

[–][deleted] 4 insightful - 3 fun4 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 3 fun -  (70 children)

Am I inferior to a man then?

Women are absolutely not inferior, they're different. The genders simply aren't interchangeable, much to the chagrin of troons. Directly comparing them doesn't work. Nobody wants men watching kids, and nobody wants women responsible for pulling their asses out of a burning building. Equality is lie used to manipulate women.

Are you telling me I should not be allowed to vote?

I believe women should voluntarily give up the vote. Their last vote should be not to vote again.

I'm a woman

Hey bby

[–]QueenBread 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (63 children)

You find me in complete agreement with your first take, about women and men being different and not interchangeable, and about how some roles are just more fitting for men and other roles are more fitting for women. I appreciate someone who has the courage to say nobody wants men watching kids or women saving people from burning buildings, because IT IS true, and I for one hate that as a society we're trying to deny this.

Then, after this, you suddenly say something pretty crazy, such as that women should voluntarily give up the right to vote? I don't get it.

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (54 children)

One of the biggest failures of democracy is that the voters are not generally knowledgeable about what they're voting for, and usually ill suited to matters of governance. Reducing the quantity will increase the quality of the vote, men are better suited for it.

[–]QueenBread 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (52 children)

Excuse me but why would men be better suited to vote?

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (51 children)

Women are less logical and rational, more emotional.

Why does a male lion lead a pride when his lazy ass doesn't do anything. Because he's big and strong, loud and aggressive. If another male takes over, he kills the cubs and has his way with the women.

It's biology, a survival strategy. Men are built to war and lead, women to nurture. We each have advantages and disadvantages that suit us to our roles. Testosterone is a white blinding light of rage, which lends itself to action, but also unnecessary violence, estrogen gives women empathy but can also leave them weeping and indecisive.

[–]QueenBread 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (47 children)

Women are less logical and rational, more emotional.

Uhu. Odd, because as you yourself know and admitted, by nature it's always men doing the dumb stuff like dares, and drunken brawls, and dangerous activities just for the eff of it. Hey, it's biological, y'all are made to take risks and not assess danger - which in turn also gets you to do dumb retarded risky stuff and find it fun while you risk breaking your neck.

But it's women being the less rational, eh? Women, you know, the ones who are less aggressive and more empathic.

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (39 children)

I keep thinking about this one incident that happened decades ago. I was in a high biology class, and the teacher pulled me aside. Apparently I'd just unseated one of my classmates as the top ranked student in the class and the student, a girl, was upset about it. I just looked blankly at the teacher, I didn't understand why the hell she was telling me. I was like "cool, so?"

I get it now. The girl had built her identity on being "the smart girl," and she worked really hard at it. But the thing was, I wasn't trying. It was almost effortless on my part beyond paying attention. I guess the teacher wanted me to console her as a fellow academic acheiver, maybe work together, idk. Instead I barely noticed the girl, besides she liked to wear dresses and she didn't always keep her legs closed. I think she might have given up on grades and focused on boys instead.

There was a lot of competition for the top spots academically, and there were a few women. But they all had to work really hard at it. Although in college one of the top 3 ranked students in my assembly class was a hot, tall, leggy blonde. 🤤

it's always men doing the dumb stuff like dares, and drunken brawls, and dangerous activities just for the eff of it.

That reminds of when we did a Chinese fire drill in moving cars. We pulled them up side to side, doing about 40-45 on a back road and everyone crawled through the windows and swapped the car they were in, even the drivers. Oh fuck, I don't know how we survived all that dumb shit lol.

But that stuff is a lot of fun. And if you don't try something you don't know if you can do it.

[–]QueenBread 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (24 children)

Uuuuh oook nevermind, you went off on a bit of a creepy tangent there. What with the whole "she didn't always keep her legs closed" and "hot, tall, leggy blonde" stuff. I'mma back off slowly.

[–]Vulptexghost fox girl ^w^ 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (13 children)

Have you considered that maybe what's "working really hard" for some girls is effortless compared to what boys have to do? Boys usually face a much larger threat from adults if they fail, and are expected to live up to higher standards. For girls it's no big deal because they will most likely get a man to take care of them. And you mentioned that this girl was attractive. Attractive women can easily manipulate others and may be used to getting good marks from charisma rather than having to actually perform well. This is why women are seen as "dramatic", they're not used to overcoming hardship on their own. Many will bail out at the slightest sign of something "complicated". Boys do it from a young age OR ELSE.

I want to say that none of this is womens' fault. It's society's fault for raising them that way. Until we stop putting women on a pedestal this will always be a problem.

In my experience there are more smart men, but the fewer smart women are smarter. Usually with autism and having a genuine interest in those subjects rather than having to be coerced into it by society. Scientifically women are definitely the smarter sex. But in this society they're not expected to use it, so most don't.

[–]Vulptexghost fox girl ^w^ 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

He's in denial. The male life sucks, at least for someone like me.

[–]QueenBread 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

The female life is even worse, so go figure.

[–]Vulptexghost fox girl ^w^ 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

It sounds like that would make women more rational. You're in denial about getting the short end of the stick here. The only thing you can do is point it out and look away from this world.

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

You're in denial about getting the short end of the stick here.

I mean, I am really glad I'm a guy, but I don't know one is objectively better than the other, they're just different.

[–]Vulptexghost fox girl ^w^ 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

You'd probably hate having a female body, so yeah you still want to be male. But your quality of life is likely still a lot lower than if you were female. That adds insult to injury for me because I do hate having a male body.

Ideally this curse wouldn't exist at all, but this is a torture chamber so of course it does.

[–]Vulptexghost fox girl ^w^ 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

No one is suited for it, democracy is just tyranny of the majority.

[–]Vulptexghost fox girl ^w^ 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

Tying a perspn's worth to how needed they are to make babies for society is sick. It's a pointless, evil game. Men are people too, not just flesh robots.

[–]QueenBread 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (6 children)

This phrase is easy to say NOW, that we're so overpopulated. You wouldn't have even thought about this if you were born just a couple hundred years ago.

[–]Vulptexghost fox girl ^w^ 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

If I wouldn't have said this a couple hundred years ago, it's because I didn't have access to the information needed to learn this explanation. And/or because my family would beat me beyond recognition and the state would have me burned alive at the stake if I dared express dissent. The game of life is one of the worst, most brutal ideas ever. I pray for all our sakes that it ends soon.

[–]QueenBread 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (4 children)

Oh no, buddy, no. No. That's not how it works. Trust me, the whole "pppfft babies aren't that important" thing is a VERY recent thought that you would never have come up with if you lived in an era where everybody around you kept dying left and right.

[–]Vulptexghost fox girl ^w^ 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Well good, the less poor souls who have to come into this world the better.

[–]Vulptexghost fox girl ^w^ 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Also if it were inconceivable (no pun intended) before overpopulation, how did the early Christians and all the gnostic sects think of it?

[–]QueenBread 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

That has nothing to do with reproduction and all to do with the fear of sex that Western culture has had since the medieval times begun.

[–]cephyrious 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

One of the biggest psychological differences between women and men is interest in people vs interest in thing. Interest in people lends itself to politics. In societies that have opened up rights to women the most, female representation in politics is close to 50%. It will most likely exceed 50% eventually, given the interest divide (much like it has done among physicians, psychologists and other occupations that are considered high tier where interest in people is important). And that's fine. It is usually the most competent that reach the top. So, given this, having a take that women shouldn't be allowed to vote is absolutely ridiculous. Having a qualification to vote based on merit is another thing.

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

much like it has done among physicians, psychologists and other occupations that are considered high tier where interest in people is important). And that's fine

Those professions suck these days.

[–]cephyrious 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Is that because women has entered them or because other, new occupations have surprassed them?

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I think it's because education became a big money maker. It's more about selling diplomas than teaching people.

[–]cephyrious 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Fair point. There's definitely been an inflation in diplomas, but why does this make the profession suck? Too many people in it who "chased the diploma" rather than had genuine interest and ability?

[–]Vulptexghost fox girl ^w^ 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Troons don't want genders to be interchangeable, otherwise they can't be troons.

[–]Alienhunter糞大名 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I don't think sex is a good criteria for which to judge competency to vote or not. I also don't think we can really have such a judgement take place through the legal system as naturally it will be abused. So the only real solution is to allow for everyone to vote who is a citizen.

That said I do think it's important to look at the topic of women's suffrage in history and analyze some questions we'd rather not say for fear of knee jerk reaction through the lense of both our modern understanding and the lens of those in history. There are some fairly compelling arguments against women's suffrage not the least of which is that it along with most other movements towards widening the voter pool are part of a power game and those who advocated for it didn't entirely do so out of merely a desire to further women's rights, but rather as a desire to obtain power through women's votes. It's also worth pointing out that women at the time were split on this issue just as women today are split on most so called feminist issues.

I'd argue however that in general we should not as a society be encouraging people to vote in mass via public campaigns and the like. I for instance will never tell women they need to vote because frankly, while I think it's good if you want to get involved in civics and exercise your voting power, it's also a very important responsibility that isn't to he taken lightly as we do with the "I voted" stickers and rallies that treat it like entertainment, a modern arena if you will" rather than the very somber and serious business of deciding the course of society. As such I will say many women I've met should not vote, just as many men should not vote, but in my own experience the stupid men who shouldn't vote by and large don't care enough to go and do it and would prefer instead to go to the bar or play sports or games or whatever. But the stupid women tend to be much more politically active and engaged in voting and frankly I think a lot of that is the reason why social issues dominate the public discourse of politics rather than economic issues, merely because as a whole women tend to be more extreme and prone to fringes as a consequence of generally being more social than men.

Naturally this is a broad generalization and shouldn't be taken as any comment on your own individual situation. But I've met a number of women who have based their vote on such banal issues like simply liking the way someone's name sounds or thinking someone's attitude is bad on television or some equally idiotic reason irrelevant to any sort of policy. I think there's also a strong tendency for women to become activists towards single issues like abortion, or LGBTQ+, or animal rights, or what have you. And that gives corrupt individuals an in to power and an ability to ravage the treasury if they can campaign on something like ending cruelty in slaughter houses and rally a bunch of idiots to their cause who will scream down at anyone who questions the person's motives or calls for looking at the bigger picture and interplay between many complex systems and ideas with simple moral criticisms.

None of this is purely a women's issue as there are certainly plenty of women who understand well just as there are plenty of men who do not. But I think in terms of generalizations it's safe to say that activism tends to be a very feminine sphere and I think it's fair to criticize this. I won't do anything to stop women or anyone else from voting and I don't think we should, but I do kinda feel like telling women that they shouldn't vote because they are women is helpful overall. If a woman hears that and believes it she is too stupid to vote anyway and nothing of value is lost. She'll believe anything at that point. If she doesn't care and votes anyway that shows at the very least she isn't a total idiot.

[–]Alienhunter糞大名 5 insightful - 3 fun5 insightful - 2 fun6 insightful - 3 fun -  (5 children)

I'll happily entertain the argument that women's suffrage has not led to improvements in society. But let's also entertain the argument that men's suffrage is also deeply problematic.

Universal suffrage and democracy itself on the large scale multi millions if not billions of people societies we find ourselves in today do little to prepare the average citizen to have the ability to understand and make informed decisions on matters of governance and seed a good portion of the power into the hands of propagandists instead. It's not merely a men or women problem.

Clearly the best solution is simply to coronate yours truly as Supreme God-Emperor since I can't trust anyone else to make the right decisions. Alas most people lack the proper vision to understand that for a safe and secure society one must embrace a larger view of the world and not the narrow dogmatic view of the democraticists. Use my knowledge I beg you, and save your loved ones from certain doom.

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

do little to prepare the average citizen to have the ability to understand and make informed decisions on matters of governance and seed a good portion of the power into the hands of propagandists instead

Indeed, which is why diluting the vote by allowing women to vote didn't give women equality, it benefited the propagandists. Same deal with allowing women to work. They earned the right to have to work to earn a living when before they didn't have to. That was a win for industry and not women.

Clearly the best solution is simply to coronate yours truly as Supreme God-Emperor since I can't trust anyone else to make the right decisions

Almost, except obviously I should be King. There is no better system of governance really as long as you have a capable ruler. The issues crop up when inevitably lesser heirs take the thrown however.

[–]Alienhunter糞大名 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

The question I'd ask is since when have women been "allowed" to work?

Women have always worked but the work has been largely domestic. I think the biggest issue with the feminist movement has been pushing the industrialist mantra that a woman who does not labor in the factories or otherwise take a position outside the domestic sphere is somehow not doing her sex any favors and is instead engaging in regressive behaviors.

When I've always considered domestic work to be important work in its own right and it seems baffling to me why women would want to demonize others for choosing that when it seems that by and large it is what makes the majority of women happy and it's what they want from life.

It's not that women should be forced to be a housewife if they choose otherwise with their lives, women who don't wish to have children or otherwise don't have domestic obligations should be welcome in the labor force should they be capable. I think the clear problem only comes around when there is no one around to handle the domestic affairs and both parents are working to the detriment of child rearing.

But have women ever been barred from the workforce? I think not. I also don't see being a woman or a man in and of itself anywhere a compelling argument for voting rights. We could argue that if voting rights are limited to landholders or otherwise then it should be irrelevant who the landowner is.

Personally I think a lot of societal issues would be resolved if we merely required mandatory military service for everyone as a prerequisite for full citizenship like is done in other countries such as Taiwan Singapore South Korea etc. Mandatory only in the sense that should you wish to be a full voting citizen then you must go through two years of military service in order to do so. Women would be welcome to serve as well should they wish. And anyone who doesn't wish to serve for whatever reason may choose not to but they do not obtain the right to vote until their service is completed.

You would have to have the military service open to everyone and make some concessions for disabilities and handicaps that normally would be a disqualification for military service, but the goal is to instill a sense of civil responsibility, a sense of comradery with ones fellow citizens regardless of class or racial divisions. And ultimately to weed out the mentally incapable and easily offended via boot camp from the voting pool.

I should think most women would likely choose not to vote rather than deal with military service. And while it saddens me to think they care more about their own comfort than the lofty ideals of civil responsibility, that's the entire point of the system to weed those out. Those who choose to serve are far more likely to bring competence and honor to the society.

[–]LyingSpirit472 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Indeed, which is why diluting the vote by allowing women to vote didn't give women equality, it benefited the propagandists.

The problem is that as history marched on and repealed the 18th Amendment, it ignored that the 18th and 19th Amendment were both connected. Women's suffrage was combined with banning alcohol because together, they did give some semblance of equality for the time [beforehand, the man of the house would frequently drink himself into the poorhouse and leave his wife and children helpless with nothing and no hope of a better tomorrow. Ban alcohol, the man couldn't legally drink himself into the poorhouse, and give women some semblance of equality, you could start to give them the chance to have a life of their own in the event the man decided to drink himself into oblivion.

[–]Alienhunter糞大名 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I don't really follow this logic. This is largely the progressive idea of ban the bad thing fix the problem which rarely works as prohibition showed.

Ban alcohol and the man can't legally drink himself into the poorhouse, so he'll illegally drink himself into the jailhouse first and then the poorhouse and leave the wife and children helpless anyway. A problem I'll add is not really mitigated in any way by allowing the woman to vote or work since now she'll be saddled with both the responsibility of the children and the responsibility of a job which is not a good position to be in for the full realization of either prospect. You can't eat the right to vote.

It makes no sense to be. A responsible husband who follows the law and does not drink himself into the poorhouse is unlikely to do so if alcohol is legal or not. An irresponsible alcoholic husband will do so regardless of the legality of alcohol.

[–]LyingSpirit472 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

It makes very little sense, but this was the argument given in the 1900s when both laws were put on the books. It sounds absurd now, but we're in an era that realized "prohibition of drugs or alcohol doesn't stop people from using them, you just make people who choose to use them criminals"- and alcohol would double it because it would go past "well, it's still very expensive to be a drug user and most people can't afford it" to "alcohol's still inexpensive to get and a relatively simple science experiment to make it; anyone can get it cheap, you can't arrest literally every adult in the world."

[–]Vulptexghost fox girl ^w^ 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Men voting has also led to nothing good.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

There's nothing like a good king.

[–]Vulptexghost fox girl ^w^ 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

That's almost impossible and never worth the risk.