Can we have less use of the words "left" and "right" here, please?

submitted by Robin from (self.SaidIt)

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[–]useless_aether 6 insightful - 4 fun6 insightful - 3 fun7 insightful - 4 fun -  (17 children)

radicals vs conservatives is more to the point imo.

[–]jamesK_3rd 6 insightful - 3 fun6 insightful - 2 fun7 insightful - 3 fun -  (10 children)

Radicals vs progressives is more appropriate.

The "conservatives" are not conservative in any way. Donald Trump and his base represent and have the values of the 1980's Democrat party. Pro taxes and tariffs, Pro spending, Pro surveillance state, Pro eugenics through abortion, Pro big unions and big corporations...

[–][deleted]  (6 children)

[deleted]

    [–]go1dfish 8 insightful - 3 fun8 insightful - 2 fun9 insightful - 3 fun -  (5 children)

    That's a better axis, but both parties fall on the Authoritarian side these days.

    [–]magnora7 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

    But both parties have anti-authoritarian aspects to them, which is how they ensnare people to then support the authoritarianism both parties ultimately stand for. The anti-authoritarian aspects of each of the 2 parties are shown very publicly, but those aspects are never given much real power, by design. Meanwhile the authoritarian aspects from both parties collude to increase their power. This is why the two party system is not only broken on a political level, but also an ideological level. It just doesn't work!

    [–]go1dfish 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

    Yeah that's a really interesting dynamic, it reminds me of the dynamic that happens with the welfare state and warfare state sharing the same general fund.

    The bleeding hearts end up advocating for more money that can be directed to our military and vice versa.

    [–]magnora7 4 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

    Hm yes very good point. And then the anti-tax people can be simultaneously portrayed as anti-welfare, to morally leverage them in to paying for war! So the war-profiteers can eat their cake and have it too, by taking advantage of people's moral desire to improve the world.

    [–]happysmash27 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    It's a shame, because it makes it hard to discuss my anti-authoritarian political views without people getting them confused with more authoritarian ones.

    [–]useless_aether 5 insightful - 3 fun5 insightful - 2 fun6 insightful - 3 fun -  (2 children)

    i see the left as radicals and the right as conservatives.

    i don't see anything progressive in 'progressives' as all they do is destroy what's already there to make room for their 'modern' and 'progressive' ideas. therefore they are really radicals too.

    progressive is used by the left because of its positive vibe.

    but would like to know your interpretation of political progressives

    [–]beermeem 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    I guess I tend to think of myself as a progressive because growing up in the US in the 80’s, “Liberal” was “a dirty word.” And I would like to see less bigotry, less exploitation of workers, and overall more financial equality across society.

    At the same time, I don’t agree with the underpinnings of the liberal concept of governance. I also think society runs itself the best when not interfered with by government and we can make the change I’d like to see in the world on a social level while making government smaller.

    So for the most part, while I’m sympathetic to “progressive” ideals, I don’t want to see them enforced by government. To this end, I certainly see OP’s point. My perspective is often far too nuanced people because they prefer to just have government reflect their perspective.

    I have sort of saying I’ve adopted — just because it’s your opinion and you’re sure you’re correct, doesn’t mean we should be enshrining that opinion into law. This is where I constantly run afoul of “Liberals” who these days basically think that all of society should be run by government laws which adhere to their opinions.

    [–]Jesus 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    The democrats are neoconservative, corporatist neoliberals, yes, you can be both a neoliberal and neocon, and the right, GOP, and executive branch are neoconservatives (neotrotskyite) Zionists, Likudniks and not true conservatives in any way shape or form. I would say that there are a dozen or so in congress, republicans and indepedents who are true conservatives.

    [–]FormosaOolong 5 insightful - 3 fun5 insightful - 2 fun6 insightful - 3 fun -  (5 children)

    so anyone who is not conservatie is radical?! cmon man!

    [–]magnora7 6 insightful - 3 fun6 insightful - 2 fun7 insightful - 3 fun -  (4 children)

    This is something that is frustrating about forums that have a political bias. Right-leaning forums are like "Us normal people vs those insane radical communist libtards" and then left-leaning forums are like "Us normal people vs those murderous racist fascist alt-right". And then they each cherry pick articles about the worst of the other side, to support that narrative.

    And then there's all these people in the middle who are just getting completely ignored because everyone is so obsessed with hating the extremists from the other "side", while ignoring the extremists from their own side. Tribalism at its finest. I hope someday humanity as a whole can stop being so easily mentally swept away by this type of thinking. Some people are learning, and that culture is growing, but man it's like 10 steps forward 9 steps back. I guess that's the story of human history, in a lot of ways. Maybe someday we'll figure it out.

    [–]Tiwaking 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

    Its not that he middle get completely ignored. Its just that the middle cant contribute to the debate.

    They'll get yelled at by both sides for 'missing the point'.

    [–]magnora7 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

    Which then makes me wonder why the media lets the extremists have the center of the discussion? I guess it's more entertaining and they want more views because that's how they make money. Just turning everything in to the Jerry Springer Show, basically.

    [–]Tiwaking 2 insightful - 3 fun2 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 3 fun -  (1 child)

    I think Jon Stewart did the best at pointing out the hypocrisy of extremism and how the media only focuses on the loudest and stupidest after he destroyed those partisan hacks at Crossfire

    [–]magnora7 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    Yes, that is an awesome moment. Thanks for the link