Draft Page For Work In Progress
Future ideas to draft up:
/s/PhoenixForum/wiki/
/s/PhoenixForum/wiki/ErgoFlow - Ergonomic Flow, Pragmatic Functionality
/s/PhoenixForum/wiki/GUI - Layout, Graphic Design, Aesthetics
/s/PhoenixForum/wiki/LibreFestos - Libre-Manifestos
/s/PhoenixForum/wiki/MetaVote - MetaVote™
/s/PhoenixForum/wiki/MVBeyond - MetaVote™ Beyond Use Just In Forums
/s/PhoenixForum/wiki/MVTrillion - Trillion Dollar Idea (With MetaVote™)
/s/PhoenixForum/wiki/Migration - Upgrade Forum Software
/s/PhoenixForum/wiki/PreVis - PreVisualization Videos
/s/PhoenixForum/wiki/ProjMgmt - Project Management
/s/PhoenixForum/wiki/Security - Security
/s/PhoenixForum/wiki/SocMgmt - Fair, Open, Accountable Social Management
/s/PhoenixForum/wiki/SoftDev - Software Development
/s/PhoenixForum/wiki/Surveys - Community Feedback
Post Title:
New Idea: Filtering STABs On SaidIt
Post Text:
(Formatted to be edit-copypasted.)
New Idea: Filtering STABs On SaidIt
Restating the obvious, currently SaidIt is anonymous, without verification, free, and is thus wide open to all STABs (shills, trolls, and bots). /u/magnora7 could change any or all of these and thus potentially change the character and nature of SaidIt, but because many of the forces of evil have high-level resources and deep pockets to skirt around these mild limitations, only low-level STABs might be affected.
We need to brainstorm for new ideas and ways to filter out the STABs. For better or worse, with pros and cons, this post is my effort to start discussing new ideas to better manage or filter the STABs on SaidIt and/or other forums. I hope we can build on these seed ideas or even come up with better solutions. It seems unlikely and impossible to catch all STABs, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't make an effort.
So for your consideration, I present 3 ideas to help filter out STABs. The first two require coding and M7's cooperation, however, the third may be implemented by anyone with the abilities to make it happen.
1 SaidIt User Details
I don't know for certain as I don't code, but this seems like the simplest and least radical idea to improve SaidIt and/or other forums.
Currently, over every comment SaidIt presents this short line:
JasonCarswell[S] 5 insightful - 3 fun - 2 hours ago
SaidIt could add more details to that line to look something like this:
JasonCarswell[S 2y 40k pk 30k ck] 5 insightful - 3 fun - 2 hours ago
I shortened the additions from "saiditter for 2 years", "40,600 post karma", and "30,626 comment karma" as is found on /u/JasonCarswell.
Perhaps this could be applied as a special or parallel automatically generated site-wide flair.
I'd especially like to see colour coding that is peripherally visible and easier to glean quickly rather than reading and processing stats. Similar to traffic lights and like my 5 tier chart the users could be colour coded in steps or on a spectrum from red or orange for new/rare users to the active users in yellow with either more established or preferably M7's trusted-team in green with M7 in blue. I prefer seeing the stats, but an alternative would be a symbol/badge/crest thing from red through to the blue (ie. blue check).
2 SaidIt User Filters
I don't know for certain as I don't code, but this seems like some serious coding effort may be required to make these radical changes to improve SaidIt and/or other forums.
This SaidIt User Filters idea could also extend to the block userfeature that is very incomplete. I stand by my statement that block user is currently a shitty function. Before debating this further be sure to read my linked comments with rebuttals to all arguments, some valid but very limited, that I've heard thus far.
Moving on, this idea includes and improves the block user function in conjunction with this larger SaidIt User Filters idea. Again, I'd especially like to see traffic-light-ish colour coding with my simple 5 tier chart.
Currently comment "flat-list buttons" include permalink (un)save block user parent edit disable inbox replies delete reply. In addition to this line or preferably on a separate new "filter-list buttons" line (perhaps with more filters to add) I would like to see these 6 buttons in a line like this example:
[+] admins 3 [+] rangers 5 [+] citizens 12 [+] users 10 [+] unruly 69 [+] blocked 5
The [+] / [-] symbol would indicate the option to expand/turn on [+] or collapse/turn off [-] the display of those user tier levels. The trailing number indicates how many comments are collapsed.
I copied my 5 tier chart, added a 6th "blocked" tier, and added colours:
| Level | Privilege | Title | Description | Colour |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| Tier 1 | extra | Site Admins | benevolent power to execute the will of the people | blue |
| Tier 2 | user | Peace Rangers | non-partisan neutral trusted-team advisors who decide together | green |
| Tier 3 | user | The Citizenry | active contributors, limited and/or tribalists | yellow |
| Tier 4 | user | The Fray | new and rare contributors, unproven, unknown, anons, and/or asstrolls | orange |
| Tier 5 | none | The Unruly | banished as they do not play well with others | red |
| Tier 6 | n/a | The Blocked | a function customized by individual users | purple |
Maybe instead of under each comment these filters are only under the original post - or in the sidebox or header. Under the post these "filter-list buttons" would apply to all comments however under the comments it should only apply to the response tree under that comment.
Maybe in user preferences the trailing number indicator might be turned off, or if unnecessary the coders could omit it and just grey out the text if none exist.
Maybe the trusted-team of "rangers" would not be necessary to include as M7 clearly has no desire to select a trusted-team for a fair, open, and accountable social management system.
Maybe there would be other filters to add too (ie. spam, downward, etc for admins).
With these filter stats under posts people could look through a feed (/s/all or subs or multisubs) and may glean aspects of the discussions within.
The first 2 tiers of admins and rangers would be hand selected by M7 - as would those who are banned (and thus unable post/comment further). The more active "citizens" and less active "fray" users would be automatically determined by a simple algorithm assessing the user account's age and post/comment karma. This equation could be shared openly to ideally be discussed and fine tuned.
With this filtration system in place, there'd no longer be need for any censorship (besides removing illegal content). The banned folks content would still be openly available for double checking, fairness, openness, transparency, and accountability, but obviously being banned they'd no longer be able to participate further. The admins and STAB-hunters could focus on the unknowns of the "fray" of less active users and trust that the more established active citizens would report their issues.
3 SaidIt As A Filter For Other Sites
Having either or both of the filter ideas above implemented on SaidIt could enhance the potential and abilities of this third idea.
Most folks missed my questions about migrating to Lemmy. I could tighten up that survey and repost it if anyone cares to find out more - or you are free to do so. IMO most SaidIt users are apathetic.
Whether SaidIt migrates to Lemmy or not, whether M7 participates or not, this idea might be one of the simplest and easiest ways to filter STABs out from good users. Since I've neither set up my own forum nor coded I can't know.
This idea starts simply:
All anonymous users on SaidIt prove they're worthy to be accepted on other sites.
/u/magnora7 has expressed on several occasions that he'd like to create more sites with focused interests. These could be for Left or Right tribalists, conspirophiles, technophiles, entertainment, DIY, classy discussions only, anything goes, news, regions, sports, etc. AND/OR anyone else could start their own forum(s) too, with or without mirroring part or all of the content on SaidIt (except for private subs, private messages, and with a max of 10k posts per sub and person).
If other sites were started, they would be wise to use SaidIt as a sort of filter. Obviously this puts the majority of the burden on SaidIt's administrators to whack-a-troll the most problematic users before "migrating" to other more secured forum(s).
A person could cultivate their anonymous user profile in the proving ground of SaidIt's general population before reaching acceptable measures determined by the other forums.
External forum sites would have their own site registration application subs on SaidIt. For example: /s/JoinDilemmy The sub could be manually managed by external sites' admins or somehow automatically by bots via the Reddit/SaidIt API that simply allows votes, comments, and posts. Private messages can be employed for confidential passwords and such, but that may be beyond API-bot abilities.
This verification method provides filtration, security, and retains anonymity.
External forum sites could select what qualities they seek in their users. This might include account age, post and comment points, insights, fun, ideological viewpoints, character (not crass or borderline troll), etc.
External forum sites could select what content (ie. subs) they wanted to mirror from SaidIt and/or participate in.
If I'm not mistaken, users via the API may continue to externally interact with users on SaidIt via votes, comments, and posts (but not private messages nor private subs (unless they login to SaidIt under the alias the API uses?)).
M7 or anyone else could do this today:
- Start a new forum - SaidIt or Lemmy or other.
- API mirror all the SaidIt content.
- Invite people to be verified on the new forum.
- Start with the biggest and oldest users, then work down.
- Problem users would be easier to weed out than rando anon STABs.
- Build a decent anon userbase, without the STABs problem.
- Be free to create a "utopian" cooperative with a fair, open, and accountable social management system.
- Create another site as a proving ground to filter new anonymous users, but under the purview of a fair and open trusted-team, lessening the burdens of SaidIt admins as well as lessening M7's (ego driven?) monopoly of private judgments and secretive banishing.
Bonus: With custom development effort, it would be possible for all existing SaidIt user names to be in a "hold" list on a new site so impostors couldn't pose as you, if the registrations were open.
As usual, I feel like I'm forgetting something or wasn't clear or compelling enough.
Fun: (SaidIt) S.I. + Lemmy = SiLemmy = Salami
Mock-ups: If there's a huge demand I can modify some screenshots to illustrate some of these things I've struggled to get into words.
Sorry this post took much longer to put together than I would have liked (over a week), like all of them lately. I've been distracted by my building being resold. I have very mixed feelings about the new landlord and need to learn about what rights I have, he has, and how this will dramatically affect my plans and future (long story). Plus I've been distracted by my typical stuff while learning and compiling information for this post.
Also, please take a look at the new information in this /s/PhoenixForum sidebox and let me know if there are any ideas that are still unclear and/or ways to improve it.
Unrelated critical thought:
Why don't they cut up nuclear waste into small pieces to sprinkle it into volcanoes like the Ring Of Sauron or The Terminator? There's no shortage of old aircraft that could be rigged up for one last remote controlled flight and dive.
revision by JasonCarswell— view source
