The fall of Russell Brand is no victory for women

submitted by jet199 from (spiked-online.com)

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[–]Hematomato 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (47 children)

But let’s get real. Going from Girl Power to victim feminism in the space of two decades is no great leap forward for women.

It's nice to finally see a woman brave enough to type that out in public.

Third-wave feminism was based on the idea that women are just as strong and capable and resilient as men. Fourth-wave feminism is based on the idea that women are weak and need protection from men.

How can you take two things that are the opposites of each other and call them both "feminism"?

[–]Site_rly_sux 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (45 children)

Why is saying "that man raped me" called 'victim feminism'

Is there a way to say 'i was attacked by that man' without playing a victim card?

Let's say your sister tells you she has been raped. Can you think through how you'd advise her on next steps to take without turning her into a victim feminist?

It's a pretty dumb take when you think about it

[–]Hematomato 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (44 children)

Fourth-wave feminism didn't invent the idea that rape is wrong. That's been the consensus for, well, the entirety of human history.

Rather, fourth-wave feminism is about the idea that lots of things are sort of "adjacent" to rape and women are not emotionally strong enough to handle them.

For example, in the '90s, if a man put his hand on a woman's thigh in a bar, that was called a "come-on." Third-wave feminism believed that the woman was then empowered to decide whether to go home with him, throw a drink in his face, do whatever she liked. It was her choice, and she could say yes or no, just like a man could.

Fourth-wave feminism believes that is called "sexual assault," and the woman should name and shame the man, get him banned from the premises, and disgrace him in public, for the sake of other emotionally weak women.

[–]Site_rly_sux 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (41 children)

Okay so let's say a dude rapes a woman today (like brand did)

Now the woman wants justice.

Is there any way she can get justice without invoking victim feminism or her "weak emotions"

It's kind of a stupid claim for you to make really. They're just rape victims being candid about what happened to them. Projections based on your fragile masculinity are entirely happening in your head. Feel free to show evidence how this is linked to your imagination of 'fourth wave' or organised feminism or whatever - because I think that's just happening in your head

[–]Hematomato 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (40 children)

Okay so let's say a dude rapes a woman today (like brand did)

Allegedly.

Is there any way she can get justice without invoking victim feminism or her "weak emotions"

Sure, she can take the alleged rapist to court and have him tried by a jury of his peers.

But if she instead appears in a documentary, making unchallenged claims right alongside women complaining about clearly non-criminal conduct and consensual sex with Brand that they regretted later, then this is no longer about justice. It's about fetishizing your own victimhood. It's about using weakness as a weapon. It's about crybullying.

[–]Site_rly_sux 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (39 children)

complaining about clearly non-criminal conduct and consensual sex with Brand that they regretted late

One of his rape victims had medical paperwork for the rape treatment center, from the morning after he raped her.

right alongside

Sounds like you have a problem with the editors, then.

You seem to have a lot of problems here and zero of them are related to the fact that a dude in showbiz used his stature to rape women, including a 16 year old child

[–]Hematomato 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (33 children)

One of his rape victims had medical paperwork for the rape treatment center, from the morning after he raped her.

You know how you get paperwork from a rape treatment center? You go to a rape treatment center. They give you paperwork. It doesn't prove anything.

All of these are accusations of partner rapes. These are women who had a bunch of sex with Brand that they enjoyed, and then one instance of sex that they didn't enjoy, and now, years later, they're finally making a thing out of it. Possibly because people are coming to them asking if they'd like to be paid some money for being in a documentary.

Partner rape does exist, but the bar is set differently. Anyone with common sense should know that. Like, if a woman walks into a bar and grabs a stranger's dick, that's definitely a sex crime. If a woman walks into her house and grabs her husband's dick, that's probably not a crime at all.

So, yeah. Allegedly. I'd have to hear all the facts, and really only the jury gets to do that.

But in the minds of fourth-wave feminists, an allegation and a conviction are the same exact thing. They think all you should have to do to ruin a man's life is say the word "rape."

[–]Site_rly_sux 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (32 children)

Uh huh so she went to a rape treatment center for fun, got treated for no reason, kept the paperwork as a memento of the fun day she had getting spatula'd and swabbed and splayed.

Sounds unlikely to be honest.

Nobody acting in good faith, thinks that women get rape treatment just for fun.

Edit

No wait sorry

You're saying it's more likely that a random woman went to a rape treatment for no reason

Compared to the likelihood of an admitted sex creep, an admitted sex addict, committing rape

You're saying the first is more likely than the second

That tells me you're completely off your rocker. You fucking lunatic. Look at the lengths you're dragging yourself to, just to avoid acknowledging that the admitted sex addict is probably also a rapist too

[–]Hematomato 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (28 children)

"For fun"? No, of course not.

"For leverage"? That's absolutely possible.

Most women aren't so manipulative that they'll go pick up some rape paperwork just for leverage - "now you can't leave me," "give me money," "do what I say or I'll destroy you," etc.

But most women Russell Brand dated - which by all accounts is hundreds - didn't do that. Just one.

Yeah, it's a little suspicious. It's a little suspicious that "Nadia" went and got this paperwork, just sat on it for eleven years, and then brought it out at exactly the moment that media outlets were offering her healthy sums of money for her story.

[–]Site_rly_sux 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (27 children)

That's absolutely possible

Okay but you haven't seen any proof of this

just sat on it for eleven years,

Or that

were offering her healthy sums

Or that

Why are you layering so much of your imagination over a well reported story? Are you so unable to deal with the facts, that you're having to imagine new bells and whistles for this story

[–]jet199[S] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Or, if you read the text message where her main concern is lack of a condom, he stealthed her. She freaked out that he'd given her bad aids or herpes. She goes to the rape treatment centre for that and has to claim rape to access the tests for free because the American healthcare system is fucked.

Compared to the likelihood of an admitted sex creep, an admitted sex addict, committing rape

Again you are doing exactly what the article says, blurring the lines between a guy sleeping around and being a rapist.

Why would you do this if the evidence stood on it's own? It's highly illiberal. It's the sort of thing fundamentalist Christians do.

[–]stickdog 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Are you really contending the no woman has ever gone to a rape treatment center for any sexual encounter that could fall short of rape?

Assuming the sensationalized media reports are true, this may have been rape or it may have been a woman who was legitimately angered by Brand ejaculating inside of her without wearing a condom. While that makes him a jerk, it does not make him a rapist.

[–]Site_rly_sux 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Are you really contending the no woman has ever gone to a rape treatment center for any sexual encounter that could fall short of rape

What evidence have you seen that supports the conjecture that this is happening here? Nothing

[–]stickdog 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

You seem to have a lot of problems here and zero of them are related to the fact that you have tried and convicted an individual based solely on a corporate media hit job.

[–]Site_rly_sux 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Solely on the facts that his rape victims said he raped them, plus his long history of shitty, addict and creep behavior

[–]jet199[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

So you are proving the article right.

You are like those women phoning the investigation team to complain Brand didn't call them after they had sex as though that is evidence of a crime.

[–]QuantumLegion 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

While I agree with most of what you said I have to point out:

16 yrs old is not a child

the age of consent in the UK....is 16 (you may not think its right for the age of consent to be under 18, but that's the law in their country)

calling them a "child" when they were of an age to consent is twisting facts to suit your world view and paint him as a potential pedo, which is false

[–]Site_rly_sux 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

calling them a "child"

Tell me you didn't read the story without telling me you didn't read the story

"The Child" was Brand's pet name for the child he was raping

[–]ID10T 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Don't engage with Site_rly_sux - his whole purpose is just to waste people's time with a gish gallop. He always says shit that's obviously stupid but tries to act like he's interested in conversation. He's just a shill trying to waste your time.

[–]Hematomato 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

That's a man? I never would have guessed.

[–]jet199[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Because women

[–]Site_rly_sux 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (20 children)

We need to ask whether this cultural shift has been in the best interests of women.

Nobody cares about your "victory" or your fake culture war bullshit.

This is about multiple rape victims having their say.

Nobody is trying to get "victory" over you dipshit culture mongs. This is just about some people saying 'he raped me".

Hey jet199 maybe idolising another YouTube conspiritard rapist is NOT A VICTORY FOR MEN.

Did you think about that

[–]stickdog 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (17 children)

I count exactly one woman who has anonymously accused Brand of rape. Who are the other supposed rape victims?

[–]Site_rly_sux 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (16 children)

https://archive.ph/mP8ff

Look if you can read the first few paragraphs and conclude that he only raped one person, then perhaps you should sit down with a wife, sister, mother or trusted female, if you have any, and ask them whether they agree.

I think forcing your dick into someone's mouth such that they have to get violent in order to get you off them - to me, that's a rape. Also anything he did with a 16 year old is rape where I live, fortunately for brand apparently not where he lives.

I don't really care that you dont believe he's a multiple rapist. It's a nuance and I really don't want to hear you argue it. Find a trusted woman and ask her whether or not that counts as rape, I really do not want to hear your thoughts on it

[–]Hematomato 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (8 children)

I think forcing your dick into someone's mouth such that they have to get violent in order to get you off them - to me, that's a rape. Also anything he did with a 16 year old is rape where I live, fortunately for brand apparently not where he lives.

And I think that if someone tries to give their girlfriend a rough blowjob, thinking she'll be into it, and she's not feeling it so she smacks him on the stomach and he stops, that's, well, not something I need the government to get involved in.

[–]Site_rly_sux 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

Who told you the government were involved

[–]Hematomato 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

We'll see if criminal charges follow. Even now, the British government has apparently sent out letters to media companies asking them to deplatform him.

[–]Site_rly_sux 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

Oh so why did you say it then

Were you just talking out your ass

apparently sent out letters

Any evidence ? Besides the contents of your rectum?

[–]Hematomato 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Any evidence ? Besides the contents of your rectum?

Sure, here you go.

You probably should have done a quick Google search before all the "rectum" stuff. Now you just look like a dipshit.

https://twitter.com/rumblevideo/status/1704584927834960196

[–]Site_rly_sux 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Why would I do searches to validate the things you suggest? If you suggest there's a spaghetti monster in orbit of mars am I supposed to go out and try to prove or disprove it?

Anyway, because you linked to social media instead of a proper source, I did go ahead and do that googling, and I found this too

https://committees.parliament.uk/committee/378/culture-media-and-sport-committee/news/197530/culture-media-and-sport-committee-chair-writes-to-broadcasters-and-tiktok-over-russell-brand-allegations-and-investigations/

I totally agree with you, assuming that is a true copy of the letter to rumble which you linked to.

The UK government would be totally overstepping their bounds, by sending this - honestly creepy and horrible - letter to rumble.

In this case, it's a committee of MPs, so not the actual government, but a group of representatives who meet to consider advice to the government about culture media and sports

You can see more about them here

https://committees.parliament.uk/committee/378/culture-media-and-sport-committee/

It's not the government but a group of reps who meet and put together advice. So, sure, close enough.

It's a horrible letter and a fantastic response from rumble for their PR.

[–]jet199[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

There is no way a parliamentary committee made up of elected MPs is not the government.

The knots you have to tie yourself in to make this OK should tell you something.

[–]jet199[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

They did

https://committees.parliament.uk/committee/378/culture-media-and-sport-committee/news/197530/culture-media-and-sport-committee-chair-writes-to-broadcasters-and-tiktok-over-russell-brand-allegations-and-investigations/

[–]Tom_Bombadil 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

/u/Site_rly_sux will believe every woman, except for the women who expose the vaccine crimes, etc.

/u/Site_rly_sux is a pharma shill, and Brand is attacking the pharma global coup.

[–]Site_rly_sux 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Dude I don't think, anyone at saidit who has read my posts before, is thinking "wow this guy just believes things without good evidence"

Feel free to point to something I believed without good evidence. I would welcome you to do that. I have pretty good evidence that Brand is a rapey sex creep.

[–]Tom_Bombadil 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (2 children)

I'm close to certain that you're another socks' puppet.

Probably a pharma bot.

/u/Bot_rly_sux

[–]cunninglingus 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

imbecile

[–]Tom_Bombadil 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

/u/cunninglingus says

imbecile

The personal attack is unimpressive. Why are you defending a pharma shill?

I wouldn't be surprised if you are another sock puppet shill for /u/Bot_rly_sux

[–]jet199[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Please engage your brain.

It's simply not possible to force your dick into someone's mouth. Your cock isn't rock hard no matter what your egirl tells you. There's simply no way the 2 of them got into that position without her allowing it.

Then after they got into that position she realised it wasn't great for her, she couldn't breath and likely panicked but she couldn't tell him either so she had to beat him off.

If you ask a women who has had sex she will likely tell you she has actually had that happen to her at some point while giving a BJ and didn't consider it rape.

[–]Site_rly_sux 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Your thoughts on this are also some that I didn't want to hear. Go and have this debate with a woman you trust IRL and ask her

[–]Megatron95 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Your vagina is still sore I see.

[–]jet199[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I'm a woman.

I have no interest in victories for men.

Maybe don't speak over me when you have no idea what you are talking about and only want to use women when it's politically useful to you.

Rape victims deserve real justice, not to "have their say". Women aren't children who need to just scream and shout and get it out of their system. We need to have our rights to justice upheld and taken seriously not used for entertainment purposes or to attack men you don't like.

I'd like you to find any post or comment on here where I have idolised Brand.

You are projecting your own petty, harmful tribalism onto me. That's not how I or most other people think.

Indeed I do think and not just react and repeat, you should try it some time.

[–]cunninglingus 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Take a step back from the Russell Brand scandal and you see that a clear cultural shift has taken place – not towards treating victims with respect, as is so often claimed, but towards treating all women as victims.

I think she has this backwards. The cultural shift - gradually for the past 50 years - has obviously been toward empowering women to refuse to be victims and to report abuse if necessary. Channel 4 isn't the problem, nor is the zeitgeist ("cultural zeitgeist" is dumb), nor are women, nor is a 'victory' over Brand. The problem is any effort to shut down this trend in the empowerment of women. I don't know if Brand is guilty of anything illegal, but I think the concerns of these women who say they were raped are important, even on a global scale.

Though I am not a fan of extreme examples, here's one: In Bangladesh 9/10 children are being sexually abused. In almost all of those cases, the parents or victims will not contact the police, or will not see any legal consequences for the abusers. There is a cultural assumption that the abused child or their siblings would not be able to marry (if a girl; boys are also abused). Improved empowerment of women's and children's rights would significantly improve the lives of millions - or billions - of people.

Thanks for the link, which I would not have seen in the news.

[–]jet199[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

The cultural shift - gradually for the past 50 years - has obviously been toward empowering women to refuse to be victims and to report abuse if necessary

Any evidence of this? My social media is full of feminists telling women not to report their rapes as they won't get a conviction and (new take) many policemen are rapists themselves. This given that conviction rapes for rape are actually higher than those for other serious crimes.

Why do they do this? Because it's politically useful for them to pretend that women's rights are in a worse place than they are. If most of the battles are won who is going to fund feminist charities and think tanks.

Talking about empowerment is the same BS. Women have power as 50% of the population, they do not need external things or middle class worthies to empower them.

If you look at confidential surveys of adults in Bangladesh you will see around 4% of women saying they have been raped. If 9 out of 10 kids were being sexually abused we'd expect that to be higher. So with that stat you are actually proving the point of the article that the victimhood of certain groups is being hyped up for political purposes. Do you really think the majority of Bangladeshi men are child abusers or enablers? That's a bit racist. Would you not then see that play out in the dysphoria? But you don't, it is other groups which are seen in the rape stats in the West.

[–]cunninglingus 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Any evidence of this? My social media...

That is surprising. Perhaps the echo chamber effect of social media groups and algorithms fail to offer better information. I am rarely on Facebook, Twitter and Instagram, as I look to news aggregate sites like Saidit and Reddit to see what others think. Sometimes Twitter is hilarious, with the contrasting of Harry's recent UN speech against the 'Prince of Pegging's' activities.

Though attempts to improve women's rights date back to the 18th century, movements specifically called 'feminist' date back to 1913 and the popular movement that we see as part of the "Me Too" phase of faminism dates back to the early 1970s, regarding "equal rights", diversity hiring, birth control, abortion rights, equal pay, etc., etc. Much of this did not benefit me directly, or indeed occasionally worked against me and others (esp. hiring practices &c), but the overall intended and developed benefit has been about the empowerment of women.

Why do they do this? Because it's politically useful...

I've not seen anything like that, though will look for it.

Talking about empowerment is the same BS.

That's been the approach I've known my whole life, and that of most people I've known. But I have been very interested in alternative approaches, also when I read Camille Paglia's 'Sexual Personae', which makes excellent points about some of the empowered women in history (though without appropriately considering the broader social circumstances for women in general). She was wrong in general, but many of her arguments were very helpful as examples of ways in which many women have been empowered.

Do you really think the majority of Bangladeshi men are child abusers or enablers? That's a bit racist. Would you not then see that play out in the dysphoria? But you don't, it is other groups which are seen in the rape stats in the West.

I got the 9/10 figure from a friend recently, but cannot find a link for it. The friend was likely thinking of gender-based violence or reports in Bangladesh, showing that there is 88.2% of gender-based violence in Bangladesh. More info here. "Women and girls are the biggest victims of GBV. Girls, including children, faced 60% of sexual assaults in 2020-21 alone. When we aggregate women, girls, and children, they account for 88.2% of GBV cases. Men make up most of the perpetrators."

There are many factors to consider, including poverty, corruption, &c. Most middle-class users of social media will likely have a very limited understanding of these abuses, which in my view are unrelated to race. Corruption and poverty are the main problems, IMO.

[–]Tom_Bombadil 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

All of this changed in 2017. The #MeToo movement took off when high-profile allegations of sexual assault were made against film producer Harvey Weinstein.

Recall that the "Me too" movement was manufactured to suppress a movie exposing the Hollywood pedophile culture.

Weinstein was red meat.

An adult hetero sacrifice.

[–]BobOki 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

But let's get real. The left has NEVER looked past today, and the right only looks to their wallets. Why does ANYONE still give two shits about these parties again?

[–]jet199[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

The left and right aren't parties.

[–]BobOki 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I never said the left and the right were a party. There was a NEW sentence there, I know english is hard and all, but if you cannot comment on the content, don't waste our time attacking the grammar or person, that's just pathetic.

[–]loves2smootch 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Wow, so many women are so easily corrupt. No wonder they are sought for representation in politics and as CEOs and treated like babies and given affirmitive action, cant achieve shit without being given stuff constantly. No brains or morals.