“Psychedelics are illegal, not because a loving government is concerned that you may jump out of a third story window. Psychedelics are illegal because they dissolve opinion structures and culturally laid down models of behaviour and information processing.” ― Terence McKenna

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[–][deleted] 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

“If you get the message, hang up the phone. For psychedelic drugs are simply instruments, like microscopes, telescopes, and telephones. The biologist does not sit with eye permanently glued to the microscope, he goes away and works on what he has seen.”

― Alan Watts

[–]magnora7 5 insightful - 3 fun5 insightful - 2 fun6 insightful - 3 fun -  (1 child)

You quoted both Alan Watts and Terence McKenna in the same post? I think we're best friends now.

[–]FormosaOolong 5 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Seriously!

[–]go1dfish 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

You folks might enjoy this:

https://saidit.net/s/music/comments/35s0/akira_the_don_wattswave/

[–]Jesus 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

Wasn't McKenna an agent for intelligence agencies? Psychedelics can work for certain ailments like cluster headaches, such as psilocybin mushrooms, but there are plenty of synthetic and dangerous psychedelics too.

[–]magnora7 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Timothy Leary definitely was an asset, but I don't think McKenna dealt much with that, if at all. I agree on the dangers of synthetic psychedelics, especially the newer and untested ones.

[–]Jesus 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Yes, that is who I was referring to, thank for correcting me.

Yes, if you talk to those who delve into psychedelic now for recreational purposes a lot of people are taking dangerous synthetic drugs.

In my hospital, I had one kid overdose on a synthetic drug with his friend. His friend was fine, but the other kid died and his heart stopped.

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

Jesus, I'm sorry for the long comment. Please forgive my sins. This is a topic I'm really interested in, studying in Uni, and enjoy discussing. I respond to everything you said, summarized at the bottom. Please skip to tl;dr - Amen.

Psychedelics can work for certain ailments like cluster headaches, such as psilocybin mushrooms,

They can do much more than that. They allow you to realize we're all one. One consciousness experiencing reality from multiple perspectives. Sounds crazy and funny, but once you realize (or experience) this feeling you become more empathetic towards others and their situations. And when you even analyze this idea on a "scientific/rational/sober" level, we all come from the same star-dust, so in the grand-scheme of things, everything on Earth is family.. if they weren't, they'd be.. Alien. Other ideas you wouldn't normally think come to you as well. Then you start questioning a lot of things that you were taught about life, and how much you actually do know.. It's all about practicing proper hygiene and using it with intent, not for fun.

Psilocybin also does have a lot of potential medically, a lot of studies are being done showing good results with proper psilocybin use for MDD, PTSD, Anxiety Disorder, OCD, even end-stage Cancer's mental effects and more:

https://hopkinspsychedelic.org/

https://beckleyfoundation.org/psilocybin-for-depression-2/

https://maps.org/other-psychedelic-research/211-psilocybin-research/psilocybin-studies-in-progress/1268-johns_hopkins_study_of_psilocybin_in_cancer_patients

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5867510/

there are plenty of synthetic and dangerous psychedelics too.

You are 100% correct. Imo you should always know what you're taking, have researched it in-depth and follow proper protocols (as well as know the risks and what to expect). I have never taken a psychedelic outside of a doctor's office, meant for a specific reason and I don't think I would otherwise. Setting and intention are important things.

Wasn't McKenna an agent for intelligence agencies?

I honestly don't know about that, but I know in the declassified Project MK-ULTRA, they administered psychedelics like LSD to unbeknownst patients and test subjects, some of which who were seeking out help for mental ailments (some who were also homeless, trying to buy drugs or prostitutes, and were suffering from obvious mental ailments) and it damaged them for life. They filed a lawsuit against the government for it. I've also read about how part of MK-ULTRA was the passing out of LSD on campuses and the whole "Dead Head" movement.

But honestly, I've read a lot about this subject and am almost finished with my degree. Everything is a drug when you think about it, even sugar. All intake affects neurotransmitter, hormone, blood pH and metabolism levels, you just don't feel it right away with somethings like a bottle of soy. How you use a substance, whether it be food/water, or a "drug", is what matters. You wouldn't take food you know is poisoned, so never take something unless you know what you're receiving. There is a time and a place for everything. You don't need to drink literally 24/7; if you did, you'd die of water poisoning, but you do need to drink. And you always practice good hygiene, as this is not something to take lightly.

Life is easier for some than others; some people need a hard reset, a change in perspective after severe trauma or after suffering for long periods of time. In the right setting, with the right intentions, and infrequent use (MK-ULTRA was not that lmao), these substances allow you to do that, with minimal damage potential, compared to that of SSRI's or anti-psychotics. And right now, I'm mostly talking about psilocybin, Ketamine as well as pure MDMA, as I've read a few peer reviewed studies on all of them (some substances don't have many out yet due to drug scheduling issues).

Even the Poppy plant is a psychedelic. The Kappa-Opioid receptor is what's responsible for Ketamine's disassociation properties, and half of it's anti-depressant effects, and the poppy plant (and opium) has many alkaloids in it that act the same way on Kappa-Opioid receptor sites (KOR agonists, Morphine is one as well. Heroin and morphine are very similar, compared to say morphine and oxycodone, oxycodone is derived from the alkaloid Thebaine, which is a stimulatory alkaloid). In Thomas De Quincey's "Confessions of an English Opium-Eater" (which was used as a medical textbook for a good 100 years and is still often recommended reading for those in the medical field, it was the first detailed medical-autobiographical account of what this substance was like, prior to use, during light use, during addiction, during withdrawals and post-use/addiction; a lot of today's knowledge on the topic still comes from this book), De Quincey stated that the "nod" one experienced was reality-altering in nature; like a waking dream, where he could play out different potential scenarios a million times over if he kept his eyes closed to see the potential out comes, but felt at comfort doing so even if the outcome was bad, and was able to find the outcome he felt worked best for everyone.

This makes sense given that we know both morphine and other alkaloids are KOR agonists, we just haven't been allowed to research all the alkaloids in the poppy plant due to their schedule status across the globe (there are over 50, some have been discovered to be non-psychoactive and have anti-tumor and anti-cancer properties.. imagine if we isolated these?). I think it is safe to assume part of the nod is psychedelic, given the effect on Kappa-Opioid receptors, as well as what most addicts describe, and most families of addicts state they can tell when their children are using by them being in a trance-like state and muttering to themselves, non-responsive as if they were asleep. However, the poppy plant is not given or listed as having any psychedelic properties!

Cannabis too, is a psychedelic, but is often classified as a "mind-altering relaxant" or "narcotic" with no medical properties.. However I have a medical textbook, first edition from 1987 (it was cheaper, and the professor was fine with us getting it), and it clearly states they were aware of Cannabis' anti-epileptic and anti-tumor properties in the US back then..

Tl;dr: Sorry for the long comment, but I love this topic. I could talk about all aspects of it forever. In my personal opinion, all plants have something to teach us, and there's an appropriate time to use them for some people; we as humans have a long history of consuming psychedelics/psychoactive substances. One could say exploring our reality and consciousness is part of the human experience - why else would we be able to metabolize and have receptor sites for these molecules? "Endocannabinoid systems"? They shouldn't be abused or taken lightly, even cannabis or the poppy plant, but I believe with proper respect, intention and correct hygiene, these substances can be used to safely benefit the lives of certain individuals at certain moments in time. Like you mentioned, they could also make things worse if you're taking something synthetic/don't know what you ARE taking, you're not the right candidate for this particular substance (a schizophrenic for example), or the setting and usage isn't correct (MK-ULTRA).

[–]Jesus 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I agree, I have delved into psychedelics many, many years ago, before I found God. meditation for long hours or prayer can induce effects very similar to low dose psilocybin and some times dream-like states that feel like one is taken full-blown dosages whilst having a lucid mind. I do not, in any way, negate the fact that they have novel medical purposes and uses that can help an individual, but like everything, one must know what they are doing.

The Kappa-Opioid receptor is what's responsible for Ketamine's disassociation properties. Yes and no. It is also a full blown NMDA antagonist, it doesn't just modulate this receptor like magnesium but blocks it. Ketamine can be psychologically addicting for some, and can cause latent problems in the long run if overused. However, it also has plenty of medically viable properties that can help all kinds of neurodegenerative disorders.

When I see people tell me they are going to try LSD, I laugh because LSD, is rarely ever seen on the street anymore. Rather, these people are takig sythetic derivitives which can and have killed people. Hence this is why, the legaliztion and regulation of psychedelics, like in the Netherlands would be the best answer. It also would be great if more funds were allocated to research their therapeutic properties.

In my personal opinion, all plants have something to teach us.

I agree with you completely.

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

It is also a full blown NMDA antagonist, it doesn't just modulate this receptor like magnesium but blocks it.

Yes, that's what I meant by:

"The Kappa-Opioid receptor is what's responsible for Ketamine's disassociation properties, and half of it's anti-depressant effects".

But you are right in this aspect too, glutamate plays an important role as well.

When I see people tell me they are going to try LSD, I laugh because LSD, is rarely ever seen on the street anymore.

Exactly, it's mostly research chemicals. Same with MDMA: I had a friend who was a heroin and just poly drug-addict. I took him to the hospital one time when I had a busy month and he was supposed to be taking a break from heroin, but was binging on MDMA (something you are not supposed to do, ever); he thought he was just taking MDMA - he popped positive for cocaine, meth, something I can't remember as well as MDMA. That's why I personally would only take something with the proper doctor and their proper set-up, but if others feel comfortable doing this solo, that's why testing kits are so important. The cheapest ones will at least let you know your substance isn't what it was advertised as by not lighting up for it. It may pop for multiple things which LSD shouldn't.

Hence this is why, the legaliztion and regulation of psychedelics, like in the Netherlands would be the best answer. It also would be great if more funds were allocated to research their therapeutic properties.

I agree, they are trying to get this set-up in Denver. I've been in contact with them, they have trained trip-sitters who are also doctors and have trip-killing medications available. Anyone can contact them, but they vet your mental health before they accept you for pre-existing conditions outside of things like depression, ptsd or anxiety. They give you the mushrooms for free, but you pay for the trip-sitting (which is reasonable, it lasts pretty much an entire day and is just you, a doctor and a nurse or a family member if you want, they have trip-killing medication in case things don't go well, and will work with you during your trip to make you comfortable and help process traumas, I don't remember what the cost was tbh, but it was under 100 USD). They're literally all experienced doctors, nurses, botanists, neuropsychologists and psychiatrists who grow their own mushrooms and offer safe trip-sitting; I would trust this over buying mushrooms from some random dude off the street and having my friend trip-sit me. It's a first-step in the right direction until we have something more official and better.

[–]Jesus 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I believe Lions Mane, another mushroom, not psychedelic also effects one of the Kappa-Opioid receptors too.

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I haven't researched it, but if it isn't hallucinogenic, I wonder if you take enough, does it become dissociative? Those are the two categories of psychedelics. Or is it just not psychoactive at all?

After a quick google search, this was one of the first things that popped up:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Nootropics/comments/3du4xn/lions_mane_mushrooms_contain_a_kappa_agonist/

"A few months back, I experimented with acute doses of lion's mane extract. I found that it could produce a mood lift, and have slightly trippy/psychedelic effects, which surprised me. I also found that in higher doses, it could also induce uncomfortable dysphoria. I didn't understand what caused the dysphoria, I thought maybe it was a side-effect of NGF stimulation.

Yesterday, I had a hunch. What if the dysphoria is caused by some interaction with the opioid receptors? I did some googling, and sure enough, lion's mane contains erinacine, a kappa receptor agonist. This is interesting as it might have some applications for reducing tolerance to opiates or increasing motivation and enjoyment.

I'm just posting this here because I know several people including myself were curious about substances that interact with the kappa opioid receptors, but complained they were hard to source. It turns out that there's a readily available product that's been sitting under our noses this whole time."

The majority of the comments were all confirming and expressing similar experiences to that of OP's.