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[–]StoneyTangawizi1 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

I'm actually the OP myself and tbh, I have to admit that I hard time identifying or feeling in common with the majority of lesbians as well if "fucking and dating men" was the dominant and common experience.

I feel the following story below needs to be heard much more. Its from another forum. Its good example of goldstar positivity.

While I understand and respect that women and lesbians's journey can be different, as someone who grew up with a lesbian aunt and her group of lesbian friends (nine of them women from two different continents, and five different countries. My aunt and I are Irish/North Indians. Four are surgeons like my aunt, two lawyers, one architect, one accountant and one forensic research scientist), I feel like the notion and careless mention that "non gold stars" are many is an utter disrespect for many, many, many, many "gold stars/platinum stars".

Back in the days of my aunt and her friends' youthful days(early 70s to early 90s, where they were between their teenage years and twenties, they don't go by the star thing. In fact, they are beautiful and intelligent young women who chose to concentrate on furthering their education and establishing their career, along where they met their girlfriends and future wives)

These women come from various backgrounds and race, most of them are Europeans and Americans who didn't blindly follow any silly "peer pressure" and such. Some of their other lesbian friends who were from more conservative, religious background who initially thought that there was something wrong with them actually didn't resort to "following their peers or trying to date men", instead they isolated themselves from doing something that is extremely revolting to them. Eventually, they understood that being a lesbian is absolutely normal, and the hetero-patriarchal society they live in will never get to dictate their lives.

Growing up amidst these wonderful, brave women and learning more from their friends and acquaintances made me realise that stories and journies like this are often silenced and not spoken or told widely enough because these women treat being a lesbian as normal and as natural as the sun and moon, and defying the misogynistic, hetero-patriarchal society.

My sympathies and understanding for those who weren't brave or fortunate enough to have such courage and clearer mind and convictions but in all honesty, these are not the stories that should be told often because these are NOT the norm. These so called "non goldstars" are NOT the norm anywhere in the world, not even in countries like America where high schoolers are pressured to loose their "virginity" like it's some damn plague. It's just that they're stories and experience are repeated often, so very unfortunately. It almost seems like it's done on purpose by some other groups of people that try to tell other girls and women "hey, you can't decide you're gay/lesbian unless you've tried having sex or having sexual relations with men", which is extremely, disgustingly revolting. It's nothing but male entitlement demanding that any woman or girl must be available to men. This has to be eradicated, like twenty centuries ago.

My wish and advice to young lesbians is that they understand that in no terms do they ever have to do something that they're uncomfortable with, in no terms do they have to try something that they find utterly revolting just because their other friends are doing it, in no terms do they have to feel pressured to let their body be a merely available sexual object for some entitled piece of shit.

My wish for especially the young lesbians is that they understand that yes, it's absolutely normal to wait; Yes, it's absolutely normal to simply wait even for your very first kiss, your very first sexual relation with a girl/woman whom YOU are sexually (and even romantically) attracted to and who SHE is mutually attracted to and respects and cherish you as a person. Yes, it's absolutely alright to want your "firsts" to be special, with that special girl/woman.

[–]reluctant_commenter 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Oh gotcha, well thanks for making that post! Really a pity the sub is now banned.

I think that post that you shared has a fantastic message. I wish I had heard that when I was younger.

That said-- I am kind of skeptical of this claim:

but in all honesty, these are not the stories that should be told often because these are NOT the norm. These so called "non goldstars" are NOT the norm anywhere in the world, not even in countries like America where high schoolers are pressured to loose their "virginity" like it's some damn plague.

Source? I am skeptical because unless there is data, it is just a battle of "no, MY anecdote is more common!" she-said, she-said, so to speak. I haven't read up on this topic at all, though, it could well be true.

Perhaps I am not fully understanding what "goldstar" means, as well-- my understanding was that if, say, you were raped you'd be a non-goldstar, the same as you'd be no longer a virgin, correct me if I'm wrong (I am not much impressed by the label "virgin", but just as a point of comparison). And lesbians are like 2-3 times likelier than straight women to have been through sexual abuse, for example, so it would make sense that many would self-describe as being "non-goldstar" if they define the term this way. edit: and would also explain their insecurity about it... which is entirely understandable but not an excuse for bullying others, please go to therapy, people.

Tbh-- I think mental illness plays into it, too. Those who have no sense of boundaries, or who were groomed from childhood, are unlikely to say no or to realize that they can say no. Again, lesbians are statistically at a disadvantage on that front. There was a fascinating comment about this on a thread I saw on here a while ago, I might try and find it.

[–][deleted] 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

I'm actually the OP myself and tbh, I have to admit that I hard time identifying or feeling in common with the majority of lesbians as well if "fucking and dating men" was the dominant and common experience.

Is this really the common experience? I'm not gold star, but I would not sum up my experience as "dating and fucking men."

[–]StoneyTangawizi1 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

It seems pretty common from what I noticed of several users from truelesbians and many other lesbian spaces. But this narrative is also very common; the "I fucked a dude once when I was young and never again" type of stories.

[–][deleted] 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

For me it was twice, but not PiV sex, which I could never bring myself to do, and I cried afterwards both times and wondered what was wrong with me. I never had a boyfriend, and I never even kissed any of my "dates." This idea that you're either gold-star or living some "dating and fucking dudes" sex-and-the-city lifestyle before coming out just seems so weird to me.

I have seen the whole "I've had a dozen boyfriends, but the last one cheated on me, so I'm gay now" in grosser places like LBL, but I never saw it on TL. Gross if so. Ugh.

[–]StoneyTangawizi1 6 insightful - 2 fun6 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

Apologies for asking but may I asked were those two times bjs, handies or did you get fingered or eaten out by them? Its strange though because I have heard some lesbians claim that they never have sex with a dude but have give him a handy or bj. And that confused me because isn't that still a form of sex/sexual act or do they think PIV is the only "actual sex"? Because going by that standard, goldstars are literally virgins for their whole lives as well as they never interact in anyway or form with a dick.

I wonder how many non-goldstars never have PIV but did bj, handy, get fingered or eaten out by a guy?

Yes I don't know where that stereotype of "dating and fucking dudes" come from. Maybe something to do with how sex-obsessed, phallocentric the US or anywhere else in the West is?

Well maybe not that type of narrative, but I think have seen a few posts of "dating and sleeping of several males" as a self harm on TL.

[–]reluctant_commenter 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

It seems pretty common from what I noticed of several users from truelesbians and many other lesbian spaces.

Huh, that's kind of fascinating. I will admit, I was only on TL like a week before it was banned, so idk how much it differed from here.

the "I fucked a dude once when I was young and never again" type of stories.

I feel like that situation is likely happen out of different reasons/motivations than repeatedly seeking out dudes, though. If I'm trying a food that's new, I might try it once out of curiosity and if it's gross I stop eating it; I don't try it another 10 times, lol. Unless someone were forcing me to keep trying it, of course (and then you have a situation of coercion). (edit: Or unless I am very unaware of my body's reaction to that food. This is where mental illness steps in. Many disorders have as a symptom a lack of ability to recognize one's bodily sensations or emotions. And mental illness is prevalent among lesbians, so this is a pretty relevant detail.) A common societal message directed at lesbians is: "You have to try dick in order to be sure you don't like it." If you have a given group of lesbians, I'm sure some have the boundaries/personality traits/whatever to say, "Fuck no" even if they're being pressured, but some might be pressured into it and try it once. Or multiple times if they live in a homophobic family/religion with threat of violence, etc., and are trying to prove to someone that they are straight in order to avoid repercussions.

I could see how your perspective is a lot different if in your country where you grew up, there was a lot more pressure of "saving yourself until marriage". In fact-- I wouldn't be surprised if among "non-goldstars" from your country, they are more likely to NOT be lesbians, than "non-goldstars" from USA, because there would have been little pressure for them to try dating men first, and it would've been more likely that it happened voluntarily. (Correct me if I've misrepresented your country's views.)