Women of color, do you believe in solidarity?

submitted by SailorMoon2020 from self.Lesbians

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[–]just_lesbian_things 4 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 2 fun -  (15 children)

Poc women of America. That was their goal. I would think that's obvious.

To what end? What is being offered, exactly?

because majority of those groups in America only have one desire which is to be the model minority, and defy and step on blackness.

America is still seen as the land of opportunity around the world. There are people who will marry strangers for American citizenship. There are people who will kill for American citizenship. People risk death to enter America every day.

Outside of black, white, and American Indians, the majority of the "other" in America are =<3rd generation immigrants. Most of them have made huge sacrifices to be where they are; some of them have escaped conditions that's hard to imagine from a first world perspective. Protesting the government/American society is always going to be a hard sell to people like that.

I don't think most of them are anti-black though. At best they view black people with pity due to the historical injustice they faced; at worst they think black Americans activists are squandering an opportunity people would die for.

[–]SailorMoon2020[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (13 children)

I didn't create the movement, fuck, ask them who did. The only thing I heard from the grape vine is it was suppose to unite all poc. Why do you think I said the comment I said, "supposedly it's a movement that was created by black women who wanted poc to unite".

You are anti-black because your comments show you aren't sympathetic nor emphatic to the plight of black people in America. Even though history does show that majority of black Americans are here because of the slave trade, you fail and dismiss the black Americans who are coming to this country now and who are first, second, and third generation. You dismiss the civil rights movement for being only for black people and even though the main goal was to end segregation, the movement itself understood and welcomed other people who would be positively affected by the movement as well. You dismiss the hardships that black Americans have had by claiming black people in America have not had to make any sacrifices in this country.

I understand what you're saying but you will never understand what I'm saying because you are obviously skeptical that black people could possibly face any hardships.

The last sentence in your comment also proves why those communities are seeking to gain whiteness and be that of the model minority. They do not care to step on black people; they prefer to because they want to say they are better than.

[–]just_lesbian_things 6 insightful - 2 fun6 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 2 fun -  (12 children)

You are anti-black because your comments show you aren't sympathetic nor emphatic to the plight of black people in America.

Do you really want emphatic sympathy? Seems like a really lame poor me attitude. I'm not emphatically sympathetic towards the Holocaust or the plight of trans people either, so I suppose I'm a transphobic anti-semite too.

I know it, I've learned it, and I'll take and support modern actions to right historical wrongs. That's probably more than you can say about your understanding of the history of your average Jane in the "Latin" or "Asian" communities. I'm never going to have the same emotional connection to black history the way I do to my own history. That's just life.

Even though history does show that majority of black Americans are here because of the slave trade, you fail and dismiss the black Americans who are coming to this country now and who are first, second, and third generation.

I literally wrote an entire paragraph on it:

There's diverse and then there's diverse. Sure there are variations of culture and language within the black community, but the "dominant" narrative in North America is centered around the trans-atlantic slave trade from mostly west Africa to southern US as an inhumane response to a demand for human labor. There are variations, like the African slaves who were "moved" to Central or South America, and later waves of immigrants to the Americas either from Africa or of African descent (though some of them may not "identify" as black, preferring to identify with their nationality or ethnic group as they don't have much in common with the dominant black north american narrative). But you cannot deny the dominant narrative that the black north American community rally itself around.

you are obviously skeptical that black people could possibly face any hardships.

I just wrote an entire essay that's a non-exhaustive list of hardships black people face. It was extensively covered in school and popular media- from the trans Atlantic slave trade, to Jim Crow and racial segregation, to Reganomics and war on drugs, to police brutality and the prison industrial complex. I'll never know the full extent of it because there's just too much, but I don't see how this would be considered "skeptical that black people could possibly face hardships". You don't know anything about the hardships the "Latin" and "Asian" communities face, and that's honestly completely fine. I don't think it makes you "anti-Latin" or "anti-Asian". But you don't get to be upset when people you don't know behave in ways you don't understand and then try to frame it as anti-blackness.

why those communities are seeking to gain whiteness and be that of the model minority. They do not care to step on black people; they prefer to because they want to say they are better than.

Some 11 year old kid who doesn't speak a lick of English being sent to live with family friends on the other side of the world as a favor to his parents for a chance at an American education and a shot at climbing out of poverty is not going to risk his stay by being anything less than as close to model citizen as he could muster.

He comes to school in the dead of winter with no jacket and a fever, and unsurprisingly ends up passing out in class. He didn't have enough of a grasp of the English language to explain to the teacher that he can't be sent home because none of the people he lives with can or want to take a day off work. If all you can take away from that is "seeking to gain whiteness" and "stepping on black people", then you're incredibly callous and I'll gladly distance myself from you.

[–]SailorMoon2020[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (11 children)

I'm confused on why you would comment if you don't care about the topic...

Also never said I wanted empathy or sympathy. However, your wall of text demonstrate you showing empathy and sympathy towards other racial groups. I suppose what can one expect from someone who is racist towards black people.

I'm also not upset over the situation of communities focusing on their own. If anything I'm more upset with the black women who really thought it was a good idea to create such a stupid movement such as POC Solidarity. It's no surprise though. It had good intentions...

[–]just_lesbian_things 4 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 2 fun -  (6 children)

Also never said I wanted empathy or sympathy.

You said that I'm anti-black because I didn't demonstrate enough emphatic sympathy towards the plight of black people. Is that really where you want to draw the line for anti-blackness? At performance??

However, your wall of text demonstrate you showing empathy and sympathy towards other racial groups. I suppose what can one expect from someone who is racist towards black people.

Holy fuck. I wrote an entire paragraph about my general understanding of black history in the US (because you mentioned America). What do you want? You don't sympathize or empathize with the plight of non-black "PoC"s. Ok. I have nothing against that. You said I dismiss the struggles of black people, I write an outline detailing their struggles. You say I dismiss the struggles of black immigrants and other "minority" black narratives, I have written two paragraphs pointing it out. I have no problem with being called out on things I've done, but you haven't actually addressed anything I've said.

I grew up with non-black "PoCs". I was the kid they brought in to translate for the boy who passed out in class. I'm more familiar with their problems personally than I do with the struggles of black people, which I've had to consciously learn through textbooks, documentaries, and various black activists and media. It's never going to be perfect, and I'm not going to try to "empathize" with something I fundamentally don't understand. I don't believe false tears help anyone. I don't expect you to empathize with these problems either, but I think it's hypocritical of you to demand empathy and sympathy while not even doing the barest of research in return.

Are you the norm for black activists? Because every conversation I've had with them have devolved in this manner of random, ungrounded accusations of anti-blackness or racism or whatever. What the fuck do you even want?

[–]SailorMoon2020[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

As I said above:

I wanted a conversation on whether or not one believes in POC solidarity. Your comments are just you bashing on the black community compared to the other racial groups you speak of. Kind of see no point in conversing with someone who speaks ill of such a group.

An activist, nah, I just wanted a discussion on POC solidarity and if women of color actually believed in it...apparently no(for the best).

[–]just_lesbian_things 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (4 children)

you bashing on the black community

Again, QUOTE. ME. Where have I bashed the black community? My god, this is like talking with a trans activist. Constant accusations of transphobia with no substantiation.

[–]SailorMoon2020[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

You uplift one community by putting down another. Which I will admit, is the reason why I made this thread. Many Latin figures will put down the black community so as to up lift their own community such as what Eva Longoria did.

[–]just_lesbian_things 5 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 2 fun -  (2 children)

You uplift one community by putting down another.

Again, where have I put down any community? You're the one treating mentions of the struggles of non-black community as an attack. If it's going to be like that, I can't imagine why nobody else is keen to join hands and sing Kumbaya.

You say you love diversity, but you've demonstrated zero understanding of the issues other PoC communities face. Zero. You dismiss their efforts to crawl out of poverty as "gaining whiteness" and "stepping on black people". You expected people you don't know to join hands with you and sing Kumbaya, and when they (surprise, surprise) don't do that, you say they're trying to gain whiteness and step on black people. You say I'm anti-black because I don't emphatically sympathize with black struggles when you yourself have demonstrated zero understanding at all, of the problems and histories of other PoC communities. Can you see why this is terribly selfish and inconsiderate? Or do I have to break it down further?

What in the world were you hoping to offer people you wanted to sing Kumbaya with? You have no understanding, and because you have no understanding, you cannot return the sympathy you're demanding from others. You do not even offer a listening ear because you treat any mention of their problem as an attack on blackness. Why the fuck would anyone in their right mind join hands with you?

Many Latin figures will put down the black community so as to up lift their own community such as what Eva Longoria did.

I'm not Latin, you are. It's your community, sort it out.

[–]SailorMoon2020[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Yeah, maybe I will make another thread about the varying Latin experience. We'll see!

[–][deleted]  (3 children)

[deleted]

    [–]just_lesbian_things 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

    Fuck off, the adults are talking.

    [–]Airbus320 1 insightful - 3 fun1 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

    😮

    [–]SailorMoon2020[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    Worry about you wishing you could own pussy, since you seem to be struggling with the lack there of, even to go so far as complain of it, my good sir.

    [–]Airbus320 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

    Based and lesbian pilled