Women of color, do you believe in solidarity?

submitted by SailorMoon2020 from self.Lesbians

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[–]SailorMoon2020[S] 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (29 children)

The civil rights movement was happenstance? The me too movement was happenstance? The Oscars are white was happenstance along with Womb Fire and more? These movements above helped many people besides those who are/were black. Yes, it was founded by black women but they also intended to help others. Me Too movement wasn't really able to accomplish that since white women stole it and ran with it.

The comment about the black community not being diverse is completely false and ignorant. However, I won't waste time explaining away on how so. Ha, like you'll understand.

[–]just_lesbian_things 6 insightful - 2 fun6 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 2 fun -  (28 children)

civil rights movement was happenstance? The me too movement was happenstance? The Oscars are white was happenstance along with Womb Fire and more?

Yes. Those things aren't done with the Asian or Latin community in mind, so they're not an example of black communities "going to bat" for either of the aforementioned demographic. It's great, and black people and black communities have definitely created a lot of very important activist movements in the last few centuries. But to say this was done for Latin or Asian communities is like saying white feminists went to bat for black women because of the multitude of ways all women have benefited from the road paved by white feminists. Credit where credit is due, but I'm not attributing intention where there wasn't any.

The comment about the black community not being diverse is completely false and ignorant.

Look, if I told you I have a friend who is "Asian", what does that tell you about her? Can you tell me anything about the language she speaks? The food she eats? How she left her country of origin? When she left her country of origin? Her religion? Her skin color? Can you even begin to guess?

There's diverse and then there's diverse. Sure there are variations of culture and language within the black community, but the "dominant" narrative in North America is centered around the trans-atlantic slave trade from mostly west Africa to southern US as an inhumane response to a demand for human labor. There are variations, like the African slaves who were "moved" to Central or South America, and later waves of immigrants to the Americas either from Africa or of African descent (though some of them may not "identify" as black, preferring to identify with their nationality or ethnic group as they don't have much in common with the dominant black north american narrative). But you cannot deny the dominant narrative that the black north American community rally itself around.

On the other hand, a woman of Vietnamese descent born to a family that came to America as a refugee of the Vietnam War has next to nothing in common with an Indian Phd candidate in America on a student visa. Hell, it might piss you off, but they have less in common with each other than you do with a white American- they don't eat the same food, they don't follow the same religion, their families didn't fight the same wars, they probably didn't speak the same first languages. They don't even look alike (honestly, I would not have known Shaun King was a black man), and yet they would both share your "Asian" label. There's no dominant narrative that defines this category. It's a makeshift "other" group.

If you understand this, then I don't get how you could at any point believe that "PoC"s would join hands and sing Kumbaya. I say this not out of spite but because I think you and some black women ITT sound disappointed and really, if you knew what you were asking, you shouldn't be. The black community is great and their stories need to be told in all its details. But the rest of us have different stories and different communities and we'll continue to be a disappointment to you until you can understand and respect that.

[–]SailorMoon2020[S] 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (21 children)

Dude, Shaun King is white LOL. He's the male version of Rachel Dozeiel-whatever.

Yall non black people really thought he was black...

[–]just_lesbian_things 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (20 children)

He doesn't claim to be white. He's spoken on behalf of the black community. He says she says. Either way, I'm not interested in the gatekeeping of your community.

[–]SailorMoon2020[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (19 children)

This paragraph sounds like something a trans person would say. "All one has to do is claim it and they really are it if you don't think so then you're a gatekeeping bigot".

But again, the last sentence of your paragraph confuses me-why participate in the thread to begin with if you don't care what black voices have to say?

[–]just_lesbian_things 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (18 children)

I mean I say the same shit to trans people who claim that other trans people aren't really trans. I don't really care, if they say they're trans and there isn't collective push back and condemnation from the community, then they're trans to me.

why participate in the thread to begin with if you don't care what black voices have to say?

I'm not interested in arguing who is or isn't black, I'm interested in discussing solidarity, of lack thereof, between "PoC". It's in the title of your post. Are you here to have a conversation or are you here to vent and lecture?

[–]SailorMoon2020[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (17 children)

I wanted a conversation on whether or not one believes in POC solidarity. Your comments are just you bashing on the black community compared to the other racial groups you speak of. Kind of see no point in conversing with someone who speaks ill of such a group.

[–]just_lesbian_things 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (16 children)

Your comments are just you bashing on the black community

WHERE?? QUOTE ME.

[–]SailorMoon2020[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (15 children)

Lol why are you yelling? It's not that serious. It's just a thread on Saidit.

I already pointed out you bashing the black community when I brought up how dismissive you were when saying black Americans didn't make sacrifices, black Americans aren't as diverse when compared to other racial groups; therefore, the issues black Americans face aren't as severe, movements black Americans were involved in were happenstance and not aimed at helping other communities. You constantly give examples of your Asian immigrant friends going through trials and tribulations yet dismiss the struggles black Americans face. You made this conversation into a who has it worst conversation. I have no desire to discuss with you who has it worst. That's not what this post is about.

Edit: I agree with your initial comments about different minority American communities have different issues, struggles, and experiences and that we should focus on our own. I disagree with you putting down the black community and dismissing the community so as to up lift your friends' community.

[–]just_lesbian_things 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (14 children)

when saying black Americans didn't make sacrifices, black Americans aren't as diverse when compared to other racial groups

I said black Americans have a dominant narrative to rally under, as the majority of them share common history. I said "Asian" and "Latin" communities in the US often do not have such a narrative or common history. This is neither good or bad, but it does describe why black communities in the US work but "Asian" and "Latin" communities don't.

Also, I missed the country of origin of your black half by a hair, and I correctly deduce the other half to be white. You were so off. Chinese and Koreans don't eat the same food or speak the same language family with Tamil people. They come to America for largely different reasons. Culturally, they're so, so different.

therefore, the issues black Americans face aren't as severe

I'd like to understand how you came to this conclusion. You're the one who keeps turning this into a who has it worst conversation. Other demographics having problems and making sacrifices doesn't mean black people don't. You're the one treating it like a zero sum game.

You constantly give examples of your Asian immigrant friends going through trials and tribulations

I've given you one, as a response to your accusation that non-black PoC communities are trying to gain whiteness and step on black people. I think that's a callous, reductive and extremely self-centered perspective to take.

movements black Americans were involved in were happenstance and not aimed at helping other communities

I said they're not examples of black American communities "going to bat" for other communities. Would you say white feminists "went to bat" for women of color just because the latter has benefited from feminism as well? I think lesbians went to bat for gay men during the AIDS crisis, because lesbians were largely unaffected but took on a lot of personal risks to stand by gay men. There isn't an instance of this happening in the "PoC" coalition, as far as I'm concerned, but correct me if I'm wrong.

[–]SailorMoon2020[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

I disagree with your first paragraph; when it comes down to your Asian friend, where does she live and I bet I'll get it right.

But what do you know about me? Besides for the fact I have black running through my veins. What country am I from; my parents are from? What's my first language?

This should be easy since all black people in America have the same, not really diverse history.

I agree with your last paragraph.

[–]just_lesbian_things 5 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 2 fun -  (4 children)

it comes down to your Asian friend, where does she live and I bet I'll get it right.

San Francisco, California. Tell me. Show me how much you love diversity.

But what do you know about me? Besides for the fact I have black running through my veins. What country am I from; my parents are from? What's my first language?

About as much as you know about me?

This should be easy since all black people in America have the same, not really diverse history.

Not exactly what I said, but I'll take a shot.

Statistically, if you're in North America it's likely that your first language is English, followed by Spanish then French. In order of descending likelihood, your black parent either descended from African slaves brought to the US, then central america then south America. There's a chance that your black parent is an immigrant, and a chance that you're an immigrant yourself, but it's slim. If you're an immigrant yourself, your place of origin by order of descending likelihood is central america, south America, Africa, then Europe.

Since you're asking me this at all, I'm guessing the truth isn't the most statistically likely. If I were a betting woman, I'd say you have a parent from central America, I'll bet Haiti or Dominican Republic, and you might've been raised bilingual with English and either French or Spanish. I don't know the other half, but since you're not bragging about it, it's probably white American, German or Irish or British or something.

[–]SailorMoon2020[S] 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (3 children)

Actually my post history does show I do in fact brag about my white site which is Danish. I was born in Denmark. My mom who is black(Afro Latin) is from Puerto Rico where I lived after moving from Denmark prior to coming to the states.

The reason I didn't bring up my biracial-ness nor the fact my ethnicity is Latin in this post is because I wanted to specifically talk about the black experience when it comes to POC solidarity.

Me being biracial, counter plays into issues such as colorism within both the black and Latin community that I didn't want the topic to stray to those issues.

[–]just_lesbian_things 4 insightful - 4 fun4 insightful - 3 fun5 insightful - 4 fun -  (2 children)

I didn't check your post history. But go on, tell me about my Asian friend like you said you would. Hold up your end of the bargain, why don't you?

[–]SailorMoon2020[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I'd say Korean or Chinese.

[–]just_lesbian_things 5 insightful - 3 fun5 insightful - 2 fun6 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

No, she's Tamil. Her parents left Sri Lanka during the genocide, but she doesn't really talk about that. She was born and grew up in Canada. She moved to America to further her career as a software developer.