"interesting" thread about the femme/butch label debate I've found, what do y'all think?

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[–][deleted] 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

I didn’t say that, you did.

[–][deleted] 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

I sure did. See how easy it can be for someone to take your statement in a way you didn't intend it? Most of the problem is online and text only communication, but also it's the lack of perspectives around us because so many choose to lurk and read instead of participate. We can only go by the vote counts to gauge the member's consensus on a matter, and I think that my speaking up is refreshing to many. I'm not calling you out as a person. I'm trying to help our community, and hopefully society on some level, speak up about their feelings, thoughts, and experiences no matter what they are. You described your own experience without indicating it was in fact your own experience. That can be taken out of context and be confusing for more vulnerable readers who are confused about their sexual identity.

[–][deleted] 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Of course it’s my own experience. I’ve been out since 1996. I have known and loved many butches and gnc women and I am absolutely a part of the group. Straight people often think butch women are predatory man-wannabes. The opposite is true. You took it out of context. They often think all butches are misogynistic and aggressive and harmful. This is not true. Many I have known to be gentle, and more submissive than not in bed, and loving. These are not bad things to say, and I don’t mean ALL butches. Never once did I suggest I am some kind of authority on butches, if you think putting words in my mouth is defending the community instead of yourself, then that is troubling.

[–][deleted] 4 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 2 fun -  (2 children)

Why are you getting so defensive? I acknowledged that yes, myself, and others could take your words out of context. That's the point. The point is also that not enough butch lesbians are talking about butch lesbians. Fuck, straight women talk more about butch lesbians than butch lesbians. I'm not defending myself at all. I'm trying to start a conversation. You could've said anything else about butches and I would've responded the same way. If you're going to continue to escalate the hostility of your responses, I won't respond to them anymore.

[–][deleted] 8 insightful - 3 fun8 insightful - 2 fun9 insightful - 3 fun -  (1 child)

I have not been hostile to you. If you want to talk about butch lesbians you are obviously able to do so as much as anyone. So can every butch woman on here. It would be nice to hear more from them. Telling me not to talk about lesbians, butch or femme or anyone, on our lesbian forum is not getting more butch voices heard, it’s just telling a woman not to talk. Maybe you’ll get more comments you identify with, or are more clear to you, from butches and not other lesbians on the thread you made. I hope so.

[–][deleted] 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I apologize. I can see how it could be taken as an attack on your person and a reduction of the value of your input. That's on me. It wasn't my intent, as I've repeated over and over. It wasn't about what I identify with either. It was about the experiences I've had here, on reddit, in my actual life, and everywhere butch lesbians are discussed. For almost a year I've witnessed nothing but pity and unfair expectations of butch women. Personally, I do happen to be much more like the typical man than woman. So that could've played into why I responded to you the way that I did. I feel like butches are either expected to be like a man in the traditional sense, or to be very careful not to express our masculinity in certain ways just in case it makes us appear "heteronormative." I can't tell you how much I've held in and dropped off on what I want to say because from what I've seen I genuinely feel like nobody would like me if I opened up more. I'm not misogynistic, I'm not heteronormative, but I've seen women, especially of the more extreme feminist variety, express views of disdain towards women like me. Maybe one day I'll have the courage to speak in more detail, but for now I'm just willing to make my mistakes and learn from them.

[–][deleted] 7 insightful - 2 fun7 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

I'm trying to help our community, and hopefully society on some level, speak up about their feelings, thoughts, and experiences no matter what they are.

You literally told someone to stop talking when she was talking about her feelings, thoughts and experience.

[–][deleted] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I didn't tell her to stop anything. I made a request about something that matters a lot to me.