How dare the slaves want what the slave masters have (that the slaves pay for)

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[–]GConly 4 insightful - 3 fun4 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 3 fun -  (7 children)

Europe is not socialist. It's capitalism with a welfare system as a safety net.

[–]jet199 4 insightful - 3 fun4 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 3 fun -  (6 children)

Yep. Socialism is workers owning the means of production. Any type of government can support its people. The welfare system actually supports capitalism which is why Marx's predictions of collapse never came about.

[–]JasonCarswell 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (5 children)

Not exclusively.

[–]GConly 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (4 children)

Socialism is defined by the workers owning the means of production.

This isn't the case anywhere in Europe.

[–]Druullus 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Unless all the means of production is owned by the state, it is capitalism and it ain't Socialism?

[–]JasonCarswell 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (2 children)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Cooperative_federations
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_worker_cooperatives
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mondragon_Corporation

[–]GConly 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Yeah... Now look at what percentage of the economy these collectives make up in Europe.

[–]JasonCarswell 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

" This isn't the case anywhere in Europe. "

Then clearly this is false, because some is more than none.

I recommend actually looking into how powerful the Mondragon Corporation actually is.

I didn't go on to list MANY other instances, such as the Italian policy that allows you to collect all of your unemployment at once as long as you team up with 10 other unemployed people to start up a new worker coop.

Being in denial doesn't make you correct.