Legal Rights / PoliticsThe Buttigiegs aren't gonna make it

submitted by PatsyStoneMaverique from politico.com

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[–]onenaivecanary 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Curious what kind of taboos you've seen in liberal social circles regarding gay people who come out "late." My wife and I both came out late by today's standards (mid-twenties); I think she was viewed with more skepticism than I because she had been (very unhappily) married to a man before divorcing him and meeting me, but her story fits a very common lesbian narrative - grew up in conservative location, marries young af, comes out about a decade later. I feel like we are viewed with some suspicion by local queers, but I thought that was just because we are plain old lesbians and not some flavor of "trans," not because we came out in our 20s instead of as thirteen year olds... Honestly, I'm pretty sure the "out" thirteen year olds are just following a social trend and have no better an idea of their sexual orientation than I did at that age, so at least the disdain and skepticism goes both ways.

[–]PatsyStoneMaverique[S] 5 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 2 fun -  (2 children)

From what I can tell it's a class/cultural thing with wealthier people who identify as liberal. There seems to be a presumption that you are a bad person, like you were up to something- or maybe that you're lying. Harassment is acceptable if it's done under the guise of acceptance."You need to accept yourself," spoken in a derisive tone, gossiping about someone excessively.

The most egregious example I've ever heard of was an office I didn't work at. The boss was a closeted lesbian supposedly, I did meet her and she certainly could have been (she was very nice.) I knew several of her employees and they obsessed about her closeting. It was a main topic of discussion between them for months whenever I saw them. Why wouldn't she just come out? Why was she so sad and pathetic? Everyone knows! She's hurting the company (direct quote!)

Their main concern seemed to be that she was unethical in some way. I remember arguing one time that she wasn't violating any sort of professional ethics by not being open about being a lesbian, she would have to date an employee or something in order for her sexuality to actually be a problem. They seemed impressed by the logic of that.

I'm not an anthropologist by any means, but I'm slightly separated from that culture so it sticks out when people casually lash out at others because they "came out late." Not a thing outside of those circles.

[–]onenaivecanary 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

That sounds pretty bonkers to me, but I believe you. I think it's possible that the person in question could be a closeted lesbian, but also, butch-leaning straight women definitely exist. And even if this woman was closeted, I really don't understand at all how she could be "hurting the company" by not talking about her sexual orientation at work. It's ok to be honest, but also if you don't want to share, then you really really shouldn't have to. This sounds like the world's stupidest sexual harassment lawsuit brewing.

[–]PatsyStoneMaverique[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Oh it was bonkers, you are correct. Unfortunately she ended up being fired, which these same gossipping people were up in arms about, but I can't help but wonder if their constant shit-talking contributed. Poor lady.

I really don't understand at all how she could be "hurting the company" by not talking about her sexual orientation at work. It's ok to be honest, but also if you don't want to share, then you really really shouldn't have to.

You would have blown their tiny minds with this.