DiscussionWhat does “woke” or “wokeness” mean to you and how would you explain that to an intelligent woke gay friend who you were trying to convince it poses a problem for the gay community?

submitted by yousaythosethingsFind and Replace "gatekeeping" with "having boundaries" from self.LGBDropTheT

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[–][deleted] 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

Yes the act of destructing white supremacy is literally not woke because it's blind. Majority supremacy is the norm in every place in the world. I'm not defending that but it's a fact. When people like you claim to want to "strip able bodied white men of power," I ask "and replace it with what?" Utopia doesn't exist and "system that promotes marginalized voices," is just code for "We, the minority, will tell you, the majority, what to do." That type of government never lasts long and normally ends with much bloodshed. Demonizing an entire race (or sexuality) is wrong, and even more so for deeds not committed by anyone alive today.

When people on here ask, "how did we get here?" And in the next breath say things like "we need to dismantle heteronormativity/white supremacy etc." You have answered you own question without realizing it. The ability to tear something down does not endow one with the ability to create something better and often results in power vacuums that get filled by the most greedy and ruthless.

In the end, the struggle is between have and have nots, or the 99% and 1%. Race, religion, sexuality, and much more are used as tools to separate the have nots from ever uniting against the haves, who have so much they couldn't spend it all in a lifetime if they wanted.

I'm not saying that everything in the world is perfect, far from it. What I am trying to say is, when you talk about dismantling structures of power (for whatever reason) the only structure you are actually going to tear down is the one that protects you. Bill Gates, and many others, fund ANTIFA and BLM and many other organizations who don't actually stand for what they claim to. The groups that do, never get any traction. The haves would never promote thought that actually took power from them. Ever. Anything that hits any major news network is allowed to air for a reason and it's not an altruistic one.

[–]Daddiescummies 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

When people like you claim to want to "strip able bodied white men of power," I ask "and replace it with what?"

A system where White people no longer experience privilege from systems that marginalize and exploit people of color. If you don't benefit from being White, you have nothing to lose or fear.

"We, the minority, will tell you, the majority, what to do."

Because the "majority" is unable to function without the exploitation and marginalization of the "minority". If the minority wasn't a threat or essential to the function of the majority, they would have nothing to fear.

The ability to tear something down does not endow one with the ability to create something better

This is a colonial mindset: You're operating under the assumption that the only functioning systems in America are the ones White people built, and that indigenous, immigrant, and Black systems were inferior instead of culled and marginalized via enslavement, exploitation, and genocide.

power vacuums that get filled by the most greedy and ruthless.

You literally just described how America works.

In the end, the struggle is between have and have nots, or the 99% and 1%.

And notice how the 1% is overwhelmingly White in America.

the only structure you are actually going to tear down is the one that protects you.

White supremacy doesn't protect me from shit.

The haves would never promote thought that actually took power from them. Ever. Anything that hits any major news network is allowed to air for a reason and it's not an altruistic one.

Which is why you need to listen to marginalized voices instead of the same circle-jerks that validate whatever stupid conspiracy you're finding validation in this year.

[–][deleted] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

"If you don't benefit from being White, you have nothing to lose or fear."

-This is language that historically precedes acts of violence. I want nothing to do with it and I urge you strongly to disavow such thoughts.

"Because the "majority" is unable to function without the exploitation and marginalization of the "minority". If the minority wasn't a threat or essential to the function of the majority, they would have nothing to fear."

-That is untrue since the majority also exploits it's own people at higher numbers than minorities. The problem is not a race or culture, it is human. The rule you want to see will be no different than any other. We are not anymore special than our predecessors that we will be able to do the exact same things they did and expect a different result because "the right people," are in charge.

"This is a colonial mindset: You're operating under the assumption that the only functioning systems in America are the ones White people built, and that indigenous, immigrant, and Black systems were inferior instead of culled and marginalized via enslavement, exploitation, and genocide."

-No this is a realist mindset. There is much more history than what has occured since the inception of the united states. I encourage you to read it. Revolutions are not a uniquely "white colonial" thing. It's actually incredibly racist of you to claim that it is.

"You literally just described how America works."

-I described how the world works. Since the US is part of this world, I will agree with you on this point.

"And notice how the 1% is overwhelmingly White in America."

-But if they aren't white they are accepted like brothers and sisters and they turn their backs on everyone else. Is that not apparent to you? Being a have is more important than anything in the world. The thing is there is a finite number of people that actually CAN be haves. Your desire to change this by simply subjugating others to (what you hope will be) your will is not something I endorse. It's simply exploitation of other humans and will do nothing but perpetuate the cycle of oppression and violence. Also, this might come as a news flash to you but you aren't going to be one of the haves even if you enact whatever revolution you wish to enact. Maybe you can take comfort in the fact that neither will I though. Hatred is a fuel that runs hot and burns fast though. It's difficult to control and eventually needs an outlet.

"White supremacy doesn't protect me from shit."

-Agreed but the US isn't a white supremacist nation. The system you want to dismantle was designed to change with time and has. A republic is the only form of government that actually protects the voice of minorities. What government specifically are you going to replace it with that will protect the voices of all if not a republic?

"Which is why you need to listen to marginalized voices instead of the same circle-jerks that validate whatever stupid conspiracy you're finding validation in this year."

-Everyone who is in the 99% is a marginalized voice. The fact that you don't understand this speaks to your ignorance.

[–]Daddiescummies 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

This is language that historically precedes acts of violence.

Do you think this is theoretical, future action? Dismantling white supremacy is literally happening before your eyes.

Also, this might come as a news flash to you but you aren't going to be one of the haves

I'm already not a have. I have nothing to lose from systemic change and everything to gain.

Agreed but the US isn't a white supremacist nation.

Explain that to the Black and indigenous people who were enslaved, murdered, and exploited to build generational wealth and racist systems that benefit White people.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

I think you're a racist and completely ignorant to the world around you.

[–]Daddiescummies 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I don't care what you think? We're going to tear down racist systems of White supremacy with or without your compliance.