DiscussionBi men in gay spaces – examples of constant homophobia, misinformation and undermining our definitions

submitted by lazy-summer-godSuper Gay from self.LGBDropTheT

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[–]Daddiescummies 20 insightful - 2 fun20 insightful - 1 fun21 insightful - 2 fun -  (7 children)

Bisexuals need to understand that they are not a systemically marginalized group. The only time a bisexual experiences systemic discrimination is when they are labeled as gay by others and experience homophobia, or when they are in a homosexual relationship. A bisexual in a heterosexual relationship has access to the full privileges granted to heterosexuals.

If you are bisexual, you don't understand the homosexual experience, and you don;t get to speak for us.

[–]PenseePansyBio-Sex or Bust 13 insightful - 3 fun13 insightful - 2 fun14 insightful - 3 fun -  (3 children)

If you are bisexual, you don't understand the homosexual experience, and you don;t get to speak for us.

Well, I certainly wouldn't argue with that. Bisexuals shouldn't speak for homosexuals.

However, that works both ways, you know? Homosexuals shouldn't speak for bisexuals, either. And I'm seeing quite a bit of that here. For example:

Bisexuals need to understand that they are not a systemically marginalized group. The only time a bisexual experiences systemic discrimination is when they are labeled as gay by others and experience homophobia, or when they are in a homosexual relationship. A bisexual in a heterosexual relationship has access to the full privileges granted to heterosexuals.

This is a homosexual speaking for bisexuals; informing us of what we "need to understand", and what our experience is. Which, apparently, YOU know better than we do. And, in your estimation, the only time it doesn't consist of privilege is when we're mistaken for you (i.e., only homophobia really "counts").

This is dismissive and presumptuous. I wouldn't do this to you. Kindly return the favor.

[–]Daddiescummies 9 insightful - 4 fun9 insightful - 3 fun10 insightful - 4 fun -  (2 children)

Which, apparently, YOU know better than we do. And, in your estimation, the only time it doesn't consist of privilege is when we're mistaken for you (i.e., only homophobia really "counts").

Bingo. Bisexuals are only marginalized when they are mistaken for homosexual.

[–]PenseePansyBio-Sex or Bust 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Bingo. Bisexuals are only marginalized when they are mistaken for homosexual.

What about being marginalized when you are mistaken for NOT EXISTING AT ALL?

Because that's the default, if you're bisexual. Sexual orientation is assumed to be monosexual by definition; thus, there's no such thing as bisexuality-- it's merely a fiction or delusion-- and therefore no such thing as bisexuals. So we must be either straight or gay. The former, if we're female; the latter, if we're male. We can come out till we're blue in the face, and it usually doesn't matter; we can't possibly be what we say we are. Because that's not real. WE'RE not real.

Think this just might pose a bit of a problem?

So the fact is, we're usually mistaken for gay, or straight. Because what else IS there? And that's just something we have to live with. Constantly being reminded that most people-- including GAY people-- regard us as something on the order of the Tooth Fairy. Only make believe.

That's what biphobia is, basically. And I think that it often flies under gay people's radar, because you're used to being on the alert for homophobia, and this operates somewhat differently. But (to mix my metaphors)... it's still poison.

We also suffer from homophobia, sometimes, of course. But while that's not the constant for us that it is for you... we get good ol' biphobia 24/7.

[–]Daddiescummies 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

What about being marginalized when you are mistaken for NOT EXISTING AT ALL?

SO you're either being perceived as heterosexual (which grants privileges in a society where heterosexuality is considered the default and social systems have been structured around it) or homosexual (which you experience oppression because society thinks you're gay).

Bisexuals are not "oppressed" because they are bisexual. They are "oppressed" because heterosexual lizard brains think you're gay.

[–]reluctant_commenter 8 insightful - 3 fun8 insightful - 2 fun9 insightful - 3 fun -  (2 children)

Bisexuals need to understand that they are not a systemically marginalized group.

I don't think that's accurate. They are marginalized for their same-sex attraction, and also for their higher rates of gender non-conformity, which in turn put them at risk for being transed, especially among children. You could argue that they are less marginalized than LG (I'm not sure I believe that, but you could argue), but there's a lot of evidence to suggest that they are indeed systemically marginalized.

A country that bans "homosexual behavior" doesn't care if you're gay or bisexual, you suffer the consequences either way.

[–]Daddiescummies 10 insightful - 2 fun10 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

They are marginalized for their same-sex attraction

They are marginalized for appearing homosexual, not for their bisexuality.

and also for their higher rates of gender non-conformity

Which is a choice they make, not an inherent aspect of identity.

You could argue that they are less marginalized than LG

Because they are

A country that bans "homosexual behavior" doesn't care if you're gay or bisexual, you suffer the consequences either way.

Unless you're a bisexual who avoids same sex partners. Then there is no consequence.

[–]reluctant_commenter 7 insightful - 2 fun7 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

They are marginalized for their same-sex attraction

They are marginalized for appearing homosexual, not for their bisexuality.

No, in many cases they are marginalized for their same-sex attraction. Many people discriminate on the basis of same-sex attraction, not just homosexuality. For example, the Catholic Church teaches that "same sex attraction is inherently disordered" and they don't care what someone's actual sexual orientation is, e.g. if someone is homosexual vs. bisexual, because they believe that "same-sex attraction can't be a part of a legitimate sexual orientation."

and also for their higher rates of gender non-conformity

Which is a choice they make, not an inherent aspect of identity.

How people present themselves, is a choice; however, (e.g.) being female and having interests, demeanor, personality traits, habits etc. that society calls "for men" or "for boys" is not a choice, so in that respect being GNC is not a choice. I didn't choose to be this way, I just am and I've been like this my whole damn life.

There are some people who like to present as GNC because they are trying to make a political statement, but for many LGB people, they are just being who they naturally are.

Because they are

You're free to think so, but that's a different question than the topic originally posed.

Unless you're a bisexual who avoids same sex partners. Then there is no consequence.

I'm not bisexual, so I can't speak to the experience of someone who's bisexual and only dates the opposite sex. To at least some extent, however, people don't choose who they fall in love with, and they certainly don't choose who they're attracted to, so a bisexual person could still suffer shame from hearing homophobic, "same sex attraction is disgusting/immoral" messages from society even if they're not actually dating the same sex.