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[–]lazy-summer-godSuper Gay[S] 11 insightful - 6 fun11 insightful - 5 fun12 insightful - 6 fun -  (5 children)

I'm one of them. It doesn't cost me anything to call a trans man "he", especially since many trans men do pass as males. I don't care about bashing transgender ideology, I just want my rights and freedoms to not be limited by them.

[–]CuteAsDuck 41 insightful - 4 fun41 insightful - 3 fun42 insightful - 4 fun -  (4 children)

??? Just because many females "pass as males", doesn't make them male, and just because many males "pass as females", doesn't make them female. It's sexist of you to define male and female by outward appearance, e.g. clothes, make up and surgery.

It might not cost you much, but it costs the rest of us a lot when you call a female he or a male she. The females will demand gay men date them because they are "he"s, the males will demand lesbians suck their "feminine girly dicks" because they are "she"s too. "We pass as the opposite sex, and you even call us by our preferred pronouns. Stop being a transphobe and include us in the spaces of the opposite sex too!".

People such as yourself going along with their preferred pronouns are why we are at this stage. You're no different than those TRAs you despise for limiting your rights and freedoms. You play by their rules. You play in their game. Wake up.

[–]lazy-summer-godSuper Gay[S] 8 insightful - 2 fun8 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 2 fun -  (3 children)

Just because many females "pass as males", doesn't make them male, and just because many males "pass as females", doesn't make them female. It's sexist of you to define male and female by outward appearance, e.g. clothes, make up and surgery.

I never said that passing as female/male should mean being a female/male. That would be crazy.

I merely say that we can do as much as to accept them as women and men in everyday life.

The females will demand gay men date them because they are "he"s, the males will demand lesbians suck their "feminine girly dicks" because they are "she"s too.

That's why we need to fight for keeping the definitions of sexual orientations strictly about sex, not gender.

Stop being a transphobe and include us in the spaces of the opposite sex too!".

And that's the other problem we need to solve – so it's okay to have spaces based on biological sex. And also sports. That shit needs to get done.

I know it would be easier for us to just not accept them as men and women, but I personally don't want that easy solution. Trans people do their best to fit in society and live their lives as comfortably as possible. I can respect that. I won't let them take away my rights over it, but I don't want to take their rights either. Compromise is the key.

And sure, some are attention seeking autists or opportunists = fuck them. But I can't look at Blaire White who has been nothing but supportive to LGB and call her a man. She's done nothing to me and it would perhaps hurt her. Why?

I will never ask anyone to bend to their toxic ideas; I just ask to call them men and women, accordingly – and no, I'm not asking you to humor the "tree" insane lunatics or any other nonsense. Doing this much is usually enough to not be seen as a transphobe in the eyes of rational people and it should keep you safe from a ban.

People such as yourself going along with their preferred pronouns are why we are at this stage. You're no different than those TRAs you despise for limiting your rights and freedoms. You play by their rules. You play in their game. Wake up.

I'm willingly taking fire from both sides over my current position, trust me, I'm pretty conscious. Woke crowds are insanely powerful at spilling bullshit right now, but I'm tired of pretending that I don't see actual transphobia and I don't want to be associated with that. I want LGB movement, not anti-trans one.

[–]boypower 16 insightful - 1 fun16 insightful - 0 fun17 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

I merely say that we can do as much as to accept them as women and men in everyday life.

And we did that. We respected their pronouns and accepted them as women and men and now we are in our current situation, where the man you posted about feels pressured into accepting a trans identified woman as a man and to feels remorse over not finding her biologically female body sexually attractive. You say we can AT LEAST accept them as men and women, but that itself has caused the current issues we are in? So how can gay and lesbian spaces remain completely biological sex oriented if we are to accept trans identified women and men as male and female regardless of their biological reality? How do women sports and women's spaces remain exclusive for biological women, females, not men in wigs and skirts, if men in wigs and skirts are to be accepted as women? How exactly do you propose this kind of change to this world, where we are to accept all trans people as the gender they say they are, but also being able to reject and exclude them from spaces that are exclusively for cis men and women without ever being labeled as transphobic or anti-trans?

In the end, we did accept them, we did coddle them, we said they are completely valid, and we let them deny biology and we let them live in their delusion because '' they are harmless, I mean, what bad could happen '' and this is the result. You are in this sub for that reason as well. And if you try to pull some '' it's just a loud minority and actual trans people don't agree with current trans ideology '' you are out of your damn mind. No trans activist is stepping up to the plate to protect LGB people, GNC youth and women. They are watching the havoc in the sidelines because they know in the end, they gain from this.

[–]CuteAsDuck 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

You say we can AT LEAST accept them as men and women, but that itself has caused the current issues we are in?

No, it didn't and you know this well.

You're right, actually. Lazy summer denies casualty, and the effect going along with "preferred pronouns" has had on where we are right now.

Calling a man a woman, and a woman a man is the first step one takes towards denying the reality of sex itself. The irony is lazy summer knows humans are mere bags of meat, which follows there is nothing special about humans, consciousness is a product of the brain, there is no "soul", etc, but they throw that logic out the window when it comes to the "trans" issue. They all of a sudden believe people can be born in wrong bodies, that a man can be born in a woman's body or a woman can be born in a man's body: https://saidit.net/s/LGBDropTheT/comments/7sjh/agb_user_goes_on_a_date_with_a_trans_man_but/t8rw

Screenshot in case their comments get deleted or edited: https://imgur.com/4cPwv0b

Maybe that's the source of your problem, champ. I don't believe they're lying at all. I think it is possible for someone to be born in body of wrong sex.

We say no such things for other conditions. Consider an anorexic, who feels they are fat eventhough they aren't, and hates their body. No therapist would claim the anorexic is "a fat individual born in an average/thin body", "an average/thin individual with a brain that is structured like the brain of fat people", etc.

Nor would they treat anorexia by telling them to go on a diet or undergo surgery to remove more fat, even if the anorexia is an extreme case.

But they do and say such things for "gender dysphoria", which is as much of a "mental illness"/"disorder" as anorexia is. Why? Because they do not care about "gender dysphoric" people. They do not want to treat them. They want to push their sexist agenda, and hide behind fake kindness such as "respect their identity!" to do so.

Another issue is, lazy summer does not provide any proof that a woman can be born in the body of a man, or a man can be born in the body of a woman (there is no such proof). The only way that could be possible would be if the "soul" of a man went into the body of a woman, or the "soul" of a woman went into the body of a man, and for that lazy summer needs to prove there is a "soul" in the first place, and the "soul" can be sexed, which contradict their previous statements that humans are nothing special/nothing but bags of meat.

If they refer to "male" and "female" brains, then it is impossible for a female brain to exist within the body of a man, or for a male brain to exist within the body of a woman. Every single cell of a "trans woman"'s brain is male, which means the brain is male, and every single cell of a "trans man"'s brain is female, which means the brain is female. It makes no sense for every part of a man or a woman to be male or female respectively, except their brain. Even if studies find that the brains of "trans men" are similar in structure to the brains of men, and the brains of "trans women" are similar in structure to the brains of women, that does not mean "trans men" have male brains, or trans women have female brains, the same way eventhough men are biologically taller than women on average, a woman that is taller than most men is not "a male born in a female body", or "a female with a male height".

The conversation with lazy summer has proven to be thoroughly unproductive and a waste of time and energy, so I'm not bothering with them anymore. However, I did want to share I am in agreement with you. Lazy summer is a pseudo-intellectual, not experienced in the use of logic, so the only way they get people to entertain their false ideas is through appeal to emotion fallacies (e.g. "it's disrespectful to call a man a man!"), and pulling on their heartstrings instead of providing facts to back any of their claims.

[–]lazy-summer-godSuper Gay[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

You say we can AT LEAST accept them as men and women, but that itself has caused the current issues we are in?

No, it didn't and you know this well. They have been pusing progressive and homophobic propaganda onto everyone for years, claiming that gender is the deciding factor of sexual orientation. OP of that thread fell to the very romanticized idea of "giving a chance", "being open-minded" and "looking to broad his experiences". He was manipulated into uncomfortable position (and potentially dangerous) and now both him and that trans guy are suffering because of this = a perfect proof that this propaganda should never be allowed to reach young people's mind.

I won't argue with you that it didn't go too far – of course it did. But I can recognize where their right overleaps mine and calling someone their desired pronouns in the internet argument is realistically not that.

How do women sports and women's spaces remain exclusive for biological women, females, not men in wigs and skirts, if men in wigs and skirts are to be accepted as women? How exactly do you propose this kind of change to this world, where we are to accept all trans people as the gender they say they are, but also being able to reject and exclude them from spaces that are exclusively for cis men and women without ever being labeled as transphobic or anti-trans?

Well, stopping the current discourse in which they say that biological sex is basically worthless and gender is the way to go would be a great start. They are actively trying to erase sex: from all definitions, not just these about sexual orientations.

In the end, we did accept them, we did coddle them, we said they are completely valid, and we let them deny biology and we let them live in their delusion because '' they are harmless, I mean, what bad could happen '' and this is the result.

So we know better now and we have to be vigilant.

You are in this sub for that reason as well. And if you try to pull some '' it's just a loud minority and actual trans people don't agree with current trans ideology '' you are out of your damn mind.

Please, refrain from putting your own words into my mouth, especially when you're putting them between semi-quotation marks to look like you're quoting me. I never said that it's just a loud minority. I've said that trans people are 0.3% of entire population and they could never cause the mess that internet is right now just by themselves. There's a huge army of TRAs who play the game of policing others for power trips it provides.