all 74 comments

[–][deleted] [score hidden] stickied comment (3 children)

Since I'm here, I may as well make a PSA for once in the past year ...

DO NOT INTERACT WITH TROLLS if you are still on Reddit, especially u/thesilentchief. The only purpose is to make AGB provide "transphobia" and either get the sub shut down by Admins, or taken over by TRAs and reformed.

RESIST.

Talk to gaybros, and ignore the bait from our stalker.

[–]PassionateIntensity 57 insightful - 1 fun57 insightful - 0 fun58 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

Did anyone think 10 years ago this was going to be the future for gay people? 🤦 I just have no sympathy left. They really expect people can just...decide to not be gay. If it was that easy, if this actually worked... And the comments, give me a break. If this guy doesn't lie to her she'll have a breakdown (and she'll still probably have one at her friends because she "suspects" the real reason).

edit I see his other comments now. You can tell this poor guy has been taught his homosexuality is wrong by liberals/progressive and feels shame about it.

[–]RedEyedWarriorGay | Male | 🇮🇪 Irish 🇮🇪 | Antineoliberal | Cocks are Compulsory 37 insightful - 1 fun37 insightful - 0 fun38 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I have no sympathy left either. Yes, he fell for the neoliberal brainwashing, but he should know that trans "men" are born female and therefore don’t have penises. Yet he still went out with her expecting her to top him. At this point, these liberal people need to learn lessons about reality the hard way.

[–]pacsatonifil 21 insightful - 1 fun21 insightful - 0 fun22 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Never in a million years. We had a good 4yrs between wide social acceptance and the tra homophobia. It’s insanity and I’m not going to ever be ok with it

[–][deleted] 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

the OP seems young.. and from one of his comments about being unable to avoid this girl, seems to be in college? there's a lot of queer brainwashing that goes on in college lgbtqa+ groups. I don't find OP's story unbelievable at all, but yes... some people do just need to learn the hard way it seems.

[–]plenty_water 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

if you would have told me this would be the fate of the "gay community", i wouldn't have believed you.

[–]Three_oneFourWanted for thought crimes in countless ideologies 36 insightful - 20 fun36 insightful - 19 fun37 insightful - 20 fun -  (0 children)

"Oh wait, I actually am gay, what do I do now that I went on a date with a woman?"

[–]julesburm1891 39 insightful - 8 fun39 insightful - 7 fun40 insightful - 8 fun -  (0 children)

The amount this gay guy is tripping over himself to play nice to a woman tried to get him to eat her pussy is staggering. My lord.

[–]IGiveAFuck2 40 insightful - 1 fun40 insightful - 0 fun41 insightful - 1 fun -  (31 children)

What really gets me is that he still continues to refer to her as "he" despite the in-your-face evidence to the contrary - and so do most of the replies (even though they're mostly supportive of the poster, they still continue with the "correct pronouns" bullshit)! FFS! At least have the balls (and as REAL gay men they actually have balls, unlike the female imposter) not to pander to this woman's delusions!

[–]lovelyspearmintLesbeing a lesbian 38 insightful - 1 fun38 insightful - 0 fun39 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

But they're being watched by AHS, so they have to play along with that bullshit.

[–]RedEyedWarriorGay | Male | 🇮🇪 Irish 🇮🇪 | Antineoliberal | Cocks are Compulsory 29 insightful - 1 fun29 insightful - 0 fun30 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

Even if they weren’t being watched, gay men nowadays don’t seem to be as strong as we used to be. A lot of gay men such pushovers now.

[–]CuteAsDuck 15 insightful - 2 fun15 insightful - 1 fun16 insightful - 2 fun -  (4 children)

True, lazy-summer-god is like that. They use he for females, and she for males because "they pass uwu". Not only are they sexist, they are a pushover too. More vocal trans right activists really like these types of pro-tra individuals that act like they are "not tras" or "not like the other tras". They use them as a tool, because they are that easy.

[–]lazy-summer-godSuper Gay[S] 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Oh, how brave, gossiping behind my back without summoning my username...

I have no interest in being a part of your echo chamber where "trans = bad" and if you disagree with that black and white view of world, your comment will get 50 'fun' points. I really don't care. I'm afraid you're gonna have to deal with it, my frustrated friend.

[–]CuteAsDuck 8 insightful - 3 fun8 insightful - 2 fun9 insightful - 3 fun -  (2 children)

Oh, how brave, gossiping behind my back without summoning my username...

Forgive me your lazy majesty, for I have completely forgotten to call upon your name and summon you. You're just that forgettable ...

I have no interest in being a part of your echo chamber where "trans = bad"

That's good. I don't want pro-"trans" people in my space anyway (:

[–]lazy-summer-godSuper Gay[S] 4 insightful - 3 fun4 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 3 fun -  (1 child)

Well, enjoy living in your bucket, champ.

[–]CuteAsDuck 9 insightful - 2 fun9 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

My "bucket" is very comfortable. Super enjoying it even if you didn't tell me to.

[–]lazy-summer-godSuper Gay[S] 11 insightful - 6 fun11 insightful - 5 fun12 insightful - 6 fun -  (23 children)

I'm one of them. It doesn't cost me anything to call a trans man "he", especially since many trans men do pass as males. I don't care about bashing transgender ideology, I just want my rights and freedoms to not be limited by them.

[–]CuteAsDuck 41 insightful - 4 fun41 insightful - 3 fun42 insightful - 4 fun -  (12 children)

??? Just because many females "pass as males", doesn't make them male, and just because many males "pass as females", doesn't make them female. It's sexist of you to define male and female by outward appearance, e.g. clothes, make up and surgery.

It might not cost you much, but it costs the rest of us a lot when you call a female he or a male she. The females will demand gay men date them because they are "he"s, the males will demand lesbians suck their "feminine girly dicks" because they are "she"s too. "We pass as the opposite sex, and you even call us by our preferred pronouns. Stop being a transphobe and include us in the spaces of the opposite sex too!".

People such as yourself going along with their preferred pronouns are why we are at this stage. You're no different than those TRAs you despise for limiting your rights and freedoms. You play by their rules. You play in their game. Wake up.

[–]lazy-summer-godSuper Gay[S] 8 insightful - 2 fun8 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 2 fun -  (11 children)

Just because many females "pass as males", doesn't make them male, and just because many males "pass as females", doesn't make them female. It's sexist of you to define male and female by outward appearance, e.g. clothes, make up and surgery.

I never said that passing as female/male should mean being a female/male. That would be crazy.

I merely say that we can do as much as to accept them as women and men in everyday life.

The females will demand gay men date them because they are "he"s, the males will demand lesbians suck their "feminine girly dicks" because they are "she"s too.

That's why we need to fight for keeping the definitions of sexual orientations strictly about sex, not gender.

Stop being a transphobe and include us in the spaces of the opposite sex too!".

And that's the other problem we need to solve – so it's okay to have spaces based on biological sex. And also sports. That shit needs to get done.

I know it would be easier for us to just not accept them as men and women, but I personally don't want that easy solution. Trans people do their best to fit in society and live their lives as comfortably as possible. I can respect that. I won't let them take away my rights over it, but I don't want to take their rights either. Compromise is the key.

And sure, some are attention seeking autists or opportunists = fuck them. But I can't look at Blaire White who has been nothing but supportive to LGB and call her a man. She's done nothing to me and it would perhaps hurt her. Why?

I will never ask anyone to bend to their toxic ideas; I just ask to call them men and women, accordingly – and no, I'm not asking you to humor the "tree" insane lunatics or any other nonsense. Doing this much is usually enough to not be seen as a transphobe in the eyes of rational people and it should keep you safe from a ban.

People such as yourself going along with their preferred pronouns are why we are at this stage. You're no different than those TRAs you despise for limiting your rights and freedoms. You play by their rules. You play in their game. Wake up.

I'm willingly taking fire from both sides over my current position, trust me, I'm pretty conscious. Woke crowds are insanely powerful at spilling bullshit right now, but I'm tired of pretending that I don't see actual transphobia and I don't want to be associated with that. I want LGB movement, not anti-trans one.

[–]CuteAsDuck 32 insightful - 3 fun32 insightful - 2 fun33 insightful - 3 fun -  (6 children)

I won't let them take away my rights over it, but I don't want to take their rights either. Compromise is the key.

Womanhood and manhood are not rights one can be given or taken from. One is either a man or a woman. No amount of compromise, surgery, crossdressing, and hormones will change that. By calling a man a woman, or a woman a man, you reduce womanhood and manhood to feelings, clothes, and artificial appearances gained from surgery. Excuse you, but a woman is not a dress, wig, etc. It's not a legal document. It's not me feeling today I'm a woman. Stop with this sexism.

I merely say that we can do as much as to accept them as women and men in everyday life.

And that's how we got to this mess. You demand people call a man a woman, and a woman a man. How would you stop a man who believes he is a woman from getting in and invading the spaces of women?

"Miss, ma'am, I accept you are a woman, but you can't use women's bathrooms, sports and changing rooms"? That's all you can tell them, and they will simply call you a "transphobe" over it and demand to be treated as women, the same way you accept them as women. You respect the T more than you do women and gay people though, as tras do, so color me surprised.

I will never ask anyone to bend to their toxic ideas; I just ask to call them men and women, accordingly

If you really don't want to ask people to bend to their toxic ideas, then stop asking people to call a man a woman, and a woman a man. That would be a good start.

I'm willingly taking fire from both sides over my current position, trust me, I'm pretty conscious.

You're not conscious enough apparently.

but I'm tired of pretending that I don't see actual transphobia

You are still too woke that your brain fell out. Calling a man a man, and a woman a woman is not "transphobia".

[–]lazy-summer-godSuper Gay[S] 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

Womanhood and manhood are not rights one can be given or taken from. One is either a man or a woman. No amount of compromise, surgery, crossdressing, and hormones will change that.

In the current academic discourse, sex is separated from gender. Sex is the impossible to change base, while gender can be adjusted. Please, don't tell me that "X is X", as we're not discussing solid rock, but abstract concepts established by humans, which exist only thanks to us. They are whatever we make them to be and the true problem is considering whether we should change something or not.

By calling a man a woman, or a woman a man, you reduce womanhood and manhood to feelings, clothes, and artificial appearances gained from surgery. Excuse you, but a woman is not a dress, wig, etc. It's not a legal document. It's not me feeling today I'm a woman. Stop with this sexism.

No. Realistically saying, you're romanticizing the idea of humanity. In reality, we're just bags of meat controlling a skeleton covered in flesh, which can die by slipping on something on a random trip to toilet.

We're not talking about some incredibly powerful foreign force that wants to redefine what you understand as your female or male view of the world. We're talking about 0.3% of population who feel like they were born in body of wrong sex and want to live a difficult life of pretending that isn't the case.

And that's how we got to this mess.

It is what it is, then. No one promised it will be easy. We have to stay vigilant to make sure it doesn't go further.

You demand people call a man a woman, and a woman a man.

I don't demand anything. I merely ask, as I think it's a decent thing to do, in realistic situation when someone actually pass as the other sex. If some attention starved teenage girl says on her bio on Twitter that she's a boy now, but makes no effort to look like one and she cries how the world is transphobic to her, that's delusional and childish. But if someone makes an effort and looks like a woman, to get out of your way and call them a "man" just because you happen to know their biolgocial sex is an asshole move.

"Miss, ma'am, I accept you are a woman, but you can't use women's bathrooms, sports and changing rooms"? That's all you can tell them, and they will simply call you a "transphobe" over it and demand to be treated as women, the same way you accept them as women. You respect the T more than you do women and gay people though, as tras do, so color me surprised.

That's the source of error in your view. This is not a competition. Everyone deserves the same amount of respect. There is no choosing sides. We're all stuck living in this mess and we can either have endless wars or solve our problems with discussion.

But silencing people with censorship (something they do) is no way to acheive this, just like misgendering them (something you do) is not.

If you really don't want to ask people to bend to their toxic ideas, then stop asking people to call a man a woman, and a woman a man. That would be a good start.

Sorry, not gonna happen. I want to secure the future of LGB movement and it won't be possible if it will be deemed as hateful but rational people who are currently neutral in this discussion. Seeing your rhetoric, I can't objectively deny the reality that you're not being hateful. You're acting just like these woke TRAs: you want something to be your way OR ELSE. Well, you both need to understand that reality doesn't work like that.

You're not conscious enough apparently.

I am. Stop seeing the world as black and white, champ.

You are still too woke that your brain fell out. Calling a man a man, and a woman a woman is not "transphobia".

It is and better consider if you want to have a LGB community or not, because the majority will never support us if you act like this. Grow up.

[–]CuteAsDuck 20 insightful - 3 fun20 insightful - 2 fun21 insightful - 3 fun -  (4 children)

but abstract concepts established by humans

"Gender" has been used to oppress women and gay people throughout human history. It is in fact a human construct, which shouldn't have existed in the first place. The only reason it came to exist unfortunately is misogyny and homophobia. Men who were attracted to men were seen as a "third gender", neither man nor woman, or somewhere in between, in multiple cultures (they might still be viewed that way in present cultures). Women were seen as inferior beings who were told to play with dolls, wear dresses, stay submissive, etc, and if they refused they would be seen as "not real women", or "not women". You're separating man and woman from their sex-based definitions, and reducing them to behaviour, clothes, artificial appearances, and feelings. You have admitted the "trans" movement (or more specifically, the "gender identity" movement) is nothing but a regressive movement that reinforces "gender" roles, and sexism. Reinforcing "gender" which is oppressive. There is no way this movement along with those who support it get any "respect" from me.

No. Realistically saying, you're romanticizing the idea of humanity. In reality, we're just bags of meat controlling a skeleton covered in flesh, which can die by slipping on something on a random trip to toilet.

We're not talking about some incredibly powerful foreign force that wants to redefine what you understand as your female or male view of the world. We're talking about 0.3% of population who feel like they were born in body of wrong sex and want to live a difficult life of pretending that isn't the case.

Realistically speaking, that 0.3% of the population is a bunch of bags of meat controlling a skeleton covered in flesh as well. But you care about one group of bags of meat more than you do about other groups of bags of meat. Sounds like a nihilist that refuses to accept their double standard and only uses nihilism in the form of "you're nothing but a bag of meat" when it's convenient for them. Or perhaps, you are not a nihilist at all. You may be someone using nihilism without knowing what it really is about to your own advantage in this discourse. Either way, cowardly move you did there.

Either care about the voices of us women (or as you call, bags of meat) that tell you not to reduce womanhood and manhood to artificial appearances, clothes, etc. Or get out of here with your "bag of meat" nonsense.

I don't demand anything. I merely ask, as I think it's a decent thing to do, in realistic situation when someone actually pass as the other sex. If some attention starved teenage girl says on her bio on Twitter that she's a boy now, but makes no effort to look like one and she cries how the world is transphobic to her, that's delusional and childish. But if someone makes an effort and looks like a woman, to get out of your way and call them a "man" just because you happen to know their biolgocial sex is an asshole move.

It is an "assholish" move to ask people to lie to themselves and others. When you ask someone to call a woman a man or a man a woman just because they "pass as a man/woman", have "crossdressed", undergone surgery, etc, you are asking them to lie. Not only to themselves, but to others, including the people who think they are "trans" or some "gender identity".

Lying is immoral in my view. So expect backlash when you're asking for such a thing.

I would also like to add, there is no such a thing as "being born in the wrong sex". I am not religious, and so "born in the wrong body/sex" makes no sense without a "soul" being inserted somewhere. You are your body. Everyone is. At no point did someone wake up and see themselves being thrown in a "wrong" body. They might not like the body they have, just like someone with anorexia does not like their body and weight. But we don't treat anorexia by telling the anorexics they are fat and should go on a diet, or that they are "in the wrong body", "assigned average x weight at birth" and should get surgery. We don't treat anorexia by accepting anorexics as "fat" and "ugly" that they believe they are. Lying to them that they are fat as they feel they are would be the "assholish" move.

Similarly, we should not treat men who believe they are women, and women who believe they are men, by giving them hormones, and surgery, or accepting them as the opposite sex with or without them "passing as" the opposite sex. That's the "assholish" move that nobody does with any other "mental illness".

But silencing people with censorship (something they do) is no way to acheive this, just like misgendering them (something you do) is not.

You want to shame and censor people for "misgendering" someone. But then claim censoring is not the way to go about this. So much contradiction in one sentence. I wonder how you get through the day like this.

I want to secure the future of LGB movement

Ah, the hero complex. Please don't bother securing our future, you're not a good role model.

Seeing your rhetoric, I can't objectively deny the reality that you're not being hateful.

You're asking people to deny the reality that sex can not change, that there is no such thing as "gender identity" and that no matter how much effort someone puts into trying to look like one sex, they will never be that sex and should not be treated as that sex. Do not refer to objective reality when you want people to deny it in the first place because "uwu, transphobia!", "uwu, hate!!".

It is and better consider if you want to have a LGB community or not, because the majority will never support us if you act like this. Grow up.

You are not in reality. The acceptance of LGB has declined, because of the T. The majority of people refuse to accept a man in dress as a woman or a woman with cut breasts a man.

How about you grow up and accept reality for what it is.

[–]lazy-summer-godSuper Gay[S] 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (3 children)

"Gender" has been used to oppress women and gay people throughout human history. It is in fact a human construct, which shouldn't have existed in the first place. The only reason it came to exist unfortunately is misogyny and homophobia. Men who were attracted to men were seen as a "third gender", neither man nor woman, or somewhere in between, in multiple cultures (they might still be viewed that way in present cultures). Women were seen as inferior beings who were told to play with dolls, wear dresses, stay submissive, etc, and if they refused they would be seen as "not real women", or "not women".

Great, so that's history. Let's make sure to never repeat that.

You're separating man and woman from their sex-based definitions, and reducing them to behaviour, clothes, artificial appearances, and feelings.

Let's begin with the fact, that from my point of view, there is nothing to reduce. I see you tend to glorify these concepts, but to me, sex and sexual orientations are very base and simple – that's why they can't be messed with.

Gender is more complicated and I don't disagree that it can exist free from bonds to sex. Every aspect can be modified.

Realistically speaking, that 0.3% of the population is a bunch of bags of meat controlling a skeleton covered in flesh as well.

And that's exactly what they are!

But you care about one group of bags of meat more than you do about other groups of bags of meat.

Not at all. Trans people want to pass as their desired gender. Lesbians want to be free to date whoever they want, without being told to accept dicks. I recognize both of these claims and fully respect them. Once again, it's not a competition. Please, stop with this "daddy loves me the best".

Either care about the voices of us women (or as you call, bags of meat) that tell you not to reduce womanhood and manhood to artificial appearances, clothes, etc. Or get out of here with your "bag of meat" nonsense.

Oh please, don't pull a hurt feminist card on me now, like some woke leftie "literally shaking" that cries on Twitter. You're just as much a bag of meat as I am.

And no, I won't choose you over trans people, just because you're forcing me to. You and them exist in the same world, so grow up and coexist.

It is an "assholish" move to ask people to lie to themselves and others.

Maybe that's the source of your problem, champ. I don't believe they're lying at all. I think it is possible for someone to be born in body of wrong sex.

So expect backlash when you're asking for such a thing.

I don't care about your backlash. "Reality doesn't care about your feelings" works both ways, champ.

You want to shame and censor people for "misgendering" someone.

Prove me ever wanting that.

But then claim censoring is not the way to go about this. So much contradiction in one sentence. I wonder how you get through the day like this.

There's no contradcition, just you having trouble with reading comprehension and filling blanks with your bold assumptions.

Ah, the hero complex. Please don't bother securing our future, you're not a good role model.

Please, stop playing the gate keeper role. You're nobody, just like I am nobody. But I don't happen to randomly dismiss groups of people, so I will always have better chances to be heard than you, labeled as hateful person.

You're asking people to deny the reality that sex can not change [...] no matter how much effort someone puts into trying to look like one sex, they will never be that sex.

Stop putting words in my mouth. I never said that, champ, and you know it. I expected better, but I see that bad apples are on both sides of spectrum, huh?

there is no such thing as "gender identity"

Of course there is such a thing, it's an abstract concept to begin with, for it to exist I need nothing but my imagination.

The acceptance of LGB has declined, because of the T.

No. The acceptance of LGB declined because of the trans rights activists. You're bold to assume 0.3% of population could be this active on the internet.

If you want to lynch entire minority for something "cis" straights did, I can only feel sorry for your limited mind.

How about you grow up and accept reality for what it is.

I always do, champ... It's my curse.

[–]CuteAsDuck 18 insightful - 2 fun18 insightful - 1 fun19 insightful - 2 fun -  (2 children)

Great, so that's history. Let's make sure to never repeat that.

"Gender" is oppressive, so history will repeat itself once you define man and woman based on "gender".

Oh please, don't pull a hurt feminist card on me now, like some woke leftie "literally shaking" that cries on Twitter. You're just as much a bag of meat as I am.

Just because I want women's voices to be heard, it's "feminism" and "feminism is bad uwu". Interesting take.

Maybe that's the source of your problem, champ. I don't believe they're lying at all. I think it is possible for someone to be born in body of wrong sex.

That's not realistically possible. For someone who knows humans are "mere bags of meat", you sound religious. Stop asking people to call a woman a man or a man a woman because you believe that "a woman can be born in a man's body" and "a man can be born in a woman's body". You're shoving your religious nonsense down other people's throat.

I don't care about your backlash. "Reality doesn't care about your feelings" works both ways, champ.

Claiming that a woman can be born in a "man's body" and a man can be born in a "woman's body", or that as long as a woman or a man "passes" as a man or a woman respectively, then they should be treated as a man or a woman, is not realistic, "champ". So "reality doesn't care about feelings" is on my side, not yours, and doesn't go both ways. Your "stance" relies on mere feelings. Which facts don't care about.

No. The acceptance of LGB declined because of the trans rights activists. You're bold to assume 0.3% of population could be this active on the internet.

The trans right activists did not pop out of nowhere. They took the beliefs of the 0.3% of the population and have been vocal about them.

In any case, most people refuse to accept a woman as a man or a man as a woman, which the 0.3% of the population want, hence the decline in acceptance of LGB people.

I always do, champ... It's my curse.

You have not grown up mentally.

[–]lazy-summer-godSuper Gay[S] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Just because I want women's voices to be heard, it's "feminism" and "feminism is bad uwu". Interesting take.

That's not what I was even referring to...

You've made it sound like I called "bags of meat" women specifically. Just shows how you like to pull things out of context. And dirty tactics like that show that you have no substance in your views, just hate.

That's not realistically possible.

That's a bold claim. Prove it, please. I can't wait to see your mind penetrating machine.

For someone who knows humans are "mere bags of meat", you sound religious. Stop asking people to call a woman a man or a man a woman because you believe that "a woman can be born in a man's body" and "a man can be born in a woman's body". You're shoving your religious nonsense down other people's throat.

... Uhhh... yeah, that certainly serves as proof that you shouldn't make assumptions about people. You're pretty bad at it.

Claiming that a woman can be born in a "man's body" and a man can be born in a "woman's body", or that as long as a woman or a man "passes" as a man or a woman respectively, then they should be treated as a man or a woman, is not realistic, "champ".

It absolutely is, given they have a good reason (and they do), champ.

So "reality doesn't care about feelings" is on my side, not yours, and doesn't go both ways. Your "stance" relies on mere feelings. Which facts don't care about.

I assure you that reality is complicated enough to not be on side of either of us. According to Plato, we can only try to reach the truth, but it will never be given to us.

The trans right activists did not pop out of nowhere. They took the beliefs of the 0.3% of the population and have been vocal about them.

Well, that's just a blatant lie. TRAs don't give a shit about trans issues or their views. They use them as fuel for their own political gains. That's why they're busy "solving" non-existing problems like acceptance for tree pronounces.

You have not grown up mentally.

Uh oh, argumentum ad personam, so edgy.

I'm tired of this mindless discussion. How about you proceed to laughing at trans people, while I tend to more interesting things.

[–]boypower 16 insightful - 1 fun16 insightful - 0 fun17 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

I merely say that we can do as much as to accept them as women and men in everyday life.

And we did that. We respected their pronouns and accepted them as women and men and now we are in our current situation, where the man you posted about feels pressured into accepting a trans identified woman as a man and to feels remorse over not finding her biologically female body sexually attractive. You say we can AT LEAST accept them as men and women, but that itself has caused the current issues we are in? So how can gay and lesbian spaces remain completely biological sex oriented if we are to accept trans identified women and men as male and female regardless of their biological reality? How do women sports and women's spaces remain exclusive for biological women, females, not men in wigs and skirts, if men in wigs and skirts are to be accepted as women? How exactly do you propose this kind of change to this world, where we are to accept all trans people as the gender they say they are, but also being able to reject and exclude them from spaces that are exclusively for cis men and women without ever being labeled as transphobic or anti-trans?

In the end, we did accept them, we did coddle them, we said they are completely valid, and we let them deny biology and we let them live in their delusion because '' they are harmless, I mean, what bad could happen '' and this is the result. You are in this sub for that reason as well. And if you try to pull some '' it's just a loud minority and actual trans people don't agree with current trans ideology '' you are out of your damn mind. No trans activist is stepping up to the plate to protect LGB people, GNC youth and women. They are watching the havoc in the sidelines because they know in the end, they gain from this.

[–]CuteAsDuck 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

You say we can AT LEAST accept them as men and women, but that itself has caused the current issues we are in?

No, it didn't and you know this well.

You're right, actually. Lazy summer denies casualty, and the effect going along with "preferred pronouns" has had on where we are right now.

Calling a man a woman, and a woman a man is the first step one takes towards denying the reality of sex itself. The irony is lazy summer knows humans are mere bags of meat, which follows there is nothing special about humans, consciousness is a product of the brain, there is no "soul", etc, but they throw that logic out the window when it comes to the "trans" issue. They all of a sudden believe people can be born in wrong bodies, that a man can be born in a woman's body or a woman can be born in a man's body: https://saidit.net/s/LGBDropTheT/comments/7sjh/agb_user_goes_on_a_date_with_a_trans_man_but/t8rw

Screenshot in case their comments get deleted or edited: https://imgur.com/4cPwv0b

Maybe that's the source of your problem, champ. I don't believe they're lying at all. I think it is possible for someone to be born in body of wrong sex.

We say no such things for other conditions. Consider an anorexic, who feels they are fat eventhough they aren't, and hates their body. No therapist would claim the anorexic is "a fat individual born in an average/thin body", "an average/thin individual with a brain that is structured like the brain of fat people", etc.

Nor would they treat anorexia by telling them to go on a diet or undergo surgery to remove more fat, even if the anorexia is an extreme case.

But they do and say such things for "gender dysphoria", which is as much of a "mental illness"/"disorder" as anorexia is. Why? Because they do not care about "gender dysphoric" people. They do not want to treat them. They want to push their sexist agenda, and hide behind fake kindness such as "respect their identity!" to do so.

Another issue is, lazy summer does not provide any proof that a woman can be born in the body of a man, or a man can be born in the body of a woman (there is no such proof). The only way that could be possible would be if the "soul" of a man went into the body of a woman, or the "soul" of a woman went into the body of a man, and for that lazy summer needs to prove there is a "soul" in the first place, and the "soul" can be sexed, which contradict their previous statements that humans are nothing special/nothing but bags of meat.

If they refer to "male" and "female" brains, then it is impossible for a female brain to exist within the body of a man, or for a male brain to exist within the body of a woman. Every single cell of a "trans woman"'s brain is male, which means the brain is male, and every single cell of a "trans man"'s brain is female, which means the brain is female. It makes no sense for every part of a man or a woman to be male or female respectively, except their brain. Even if studies find that the brains of "trans men" are similar in structure to the brains of men, and the brains of "trans women" are similar in structure to the brains of women, that does not mean "trans men" have male brains, or trans women have female brains, the same way eventhough men are biologically taller than women on average, a woman that is taller than most men is not "a male born in a female body", or "a female with a male height".

The conversation with lazy summer has proven to be thoroughly unproductive and a waste of time and energy, so I'm not bothering with them anymore. However, I did want to share I am in agreement with you. Lazy summer is a pseudo-intellectual, not experienced in the use of logic, so the only way they get people to entertain their false ideas is through appeal to emotion fallacies (e.g. "it's disrespectful to call a man a man!"), and pulling on their heartstrings instead of providing facts to back any of their claims.

[–]lazy-summer-godSuper Gay[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

You say we can AT LEAST accept them as men and women, but that itself has caused the current issues we are in?

No, it didn't and you know this well. They have been pusing progressive and homophobic propaganda onto everyone for years, claiming that gender is the deciding factor of sexual orientation. OP of that thread fell to the very romanticized idea of "giving a chance", "being open-minded" and "looking to broad his experiences". He was manipulated into uncomfortable position (and potentially dangerous) and now both him and that trans guy are suffering because of this = a perfect proof that this propaganda should never be allowed to reach young people's mind.

I won't argue with you that it didn't go too far – of course it did. But I can recognize where their right overleaps mine and calling someone their desired pronouns in the internet argument is realistically not that.

How do women sports and women's spaces remain exclusive for biological women, females, not men in wigs and skirts, if men in wigs and skirts are to be accepted as women? How exactly do you propose this kind of change to this world, where we are to accept all trans people as the gender they say they are, but also being able to reject and exclude them from spaces that are exclusively for cis men and women without ever being labeled as transphobic or anti-trans?

Well, stopping the current discourse in which they say that biological sex is basically worthless and gender is the way to go would be a great start. They are actively trying to erase sex: from all definitions, not just these about sexual orientations.

In the end, we did accept them, we did coddle them, we said they are completely valid, and we let them deny biology and we let them live in their delusion because '' they are harmless, I mean, what bad could happen '' and this is the result.

So we know better now and we have to be vigilant.

You are in this sub for that reason as well. And if you try to pull some '' it's just a loud minority and actual trans people don't agree with current trans ideology '' you are out of your damn mind.

Please, refrain from putting your own words into my mouth, especially when you're putting them between semi-quotation marks to look like you're quoting me. I never said that it's just a loud minority. I've said that trans people are 0.3% of entire population and they could never cause the mess that internet is right now just by themselves. There's a huge army of TRAs who play the game of policing others for power trips it provides.

[–]IGiveAFuck2 18 insightful - 3 fun18 insightful - 2 fun19 insightful - 3 fun -  (6 children)

oh fuck off! NO "trans men" pass as males! Stop being such a handmaiden! You call yourself "super gay" but you don't have the balls to confront these delusional women! By calling women "he" you're giving these people exactly what they want - to control language and make the 99.7% of the world accept a lie.

[–]CuteAsDuck 15 insightful - 2 fun15 insightful - 1 fun16 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

What's worse, this "supergay" individual thinks people can be born in wrong bodies, and wants us to "prove" they are wrong: https://saidit.net/s/LGBDropTheT/comments/7sjh/agb_user_goes_on_a_date_with_a_trans_man_but/t8rw

I took screenshots in case their comments get deleted or edited: https://imgur.com/4cPwv0b

Maybe that's the source of your problem, champ. I don't believe they're lying at all. I think it is possible for someone to be born in body of wrong sex.

That's not realistically possible.

That's a bold claim. Prove it, please. I can't wait to see your mind penetrating machine.

Which is exactly what religious people do. Asking non-believers to prove believers are "wrong", instead of believers proving their claims first.

I am screaming internally.

[–]lazy-summer-godSuper Gay[S] 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

NO "trans men" pass as males!

That's literally a matter of opinion, champ.

You call yourself "super gay" but you don't have the balls to confront these delusional women!

Being super gay has nothing to do with being anti-trans, champ. It means I'm not sexually attracted to them.

It's interesting how you accepted the fake "woke" narrative spread by twitter TRAs.

[–]IGiveAFuck2 15 insightful - 4 fun15 insightful - 3 fun16 insightful - 4 fun -  (2 children)

I'm the one who's accepted 'the fake "woke" narrative'? You really need a reality check! And stop calling everyone "champ" - it's super patronising and brings to mind these fake-men who insist on calling (real) men "dude" and "bro" all the time, as if that's going to prove they're really men! I'm sick of being nice to these people, it's what's got us into this mess! Why are you on this forum - from all your replies it seems you'd be much happier on Reddit with all the other TRA apologists.

[–]lazy-summer-godSuper Gay[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I'm the one who's accepted 'the fake "woke" narrative'?

Absolutely. They're the ones lying that Super Straight was started by 4chan trolls and it's anti-trans movement. It's not.

And stop calling everyone "champ" - it's super patronising and brings to mind these fake-men who insist on calling (real) men "dude" and "bro" all the time, as if that's going to prove they're really men!

Your way of reacting to my words is definitely not my problem, champ. Deal with it yourself, lol.

I'm sick of being nice to these people, it's what's got us into this mess!

And you will never be accepted for it by any rational person.

Why are you on this forum - from all your replies it seems you'd be much happier on Reddit with all the other TRA apologists.

It's interesting how you associate "being on this forum" with "having to agree with everything that is said here". I can't really enjoy an echo chamber, but you're free to do whatever you want.

As for your question, I'm here because I support the idea of LGBdropptheT, not whatever transphobic bullshit you're trying to change it into.

[–]Node 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

make the 99.7% of the world accept a lie.

They have a surprise coming.

[–][deleted] 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

so i'm... not gonna get too involved this argument thread that follows, but there's a few points of clarification here:

1) because it doesn't cost you anything, doesn't mean it doesn't cost women anything. and because lesbians and some bisexuals are women, this ties into LGB issue for us, because for us lesbians and female bisexuals, we cannot separate our sexual orientation from our sex, they go hand in hand. this isn't some heavyhanded feminist agenda, this is just our reality. now that being said, I'm not gonna go out and intentionally misgender people IRL just for funsies when they've done wrong, that would be called being rude. and i recognize that there are a few, not many, but some nonetheless, trans people who pass socially and socially move through the world as a woman or man, and those cases deserve nuance. but calling a spade a spade is required under certain circumstances, for example, crime statistics and crime awareness. every time there's an article with the headline about a woman committing sexual assault, and then you read closer and find out it's a trans woman that's being referred to as she/her, and is being sent to a woman's prison, and this crime is being documented under female crime statistics, that is a problem, because it obscures the root of the issue - that it was an act of male violence. furthermore, distancing trans men from the term "woman" is damaging to trans men as well - trans men are still female and thus still subject to the same heightened threat of sexual assault as the rest of us other females, they still require female healthcare, they still need abortion and birth control access, they grew up as girls and thus share commons experiences with other women, etc. put simply, i understand the motivation to reach a compromise, but i don't see how it's possible without damaging implications for the female class. language is important for identifying our persecutions and passing laws protecting us from them. and because lesbians and female bisexuals belong to this female class, this is why "misgendering" is an issue for us.

2) i see in the thread both you and cuteasduck briefly argue about brain-sex. brain-sex is still a hotly debated topic as there is conflicting research on it. until a scientific consensus is reached, believing or not believing that "someone can be born in the wrong sexed body" is simply a matter of personal opinion at this point.

3) a lot of people in this server aren't going to like this, but the truth is, people with extreme lifelong chronic GD exist, and sometimes medical transition is the only option to alleviate symptoms for them. i do believe they're the minority of current trans-identified people, and most GD can be treated without medical transition, but there will always be exceptional cases. and until there's a cure for extreme GD, either through changing social norms and abolishing gender roles or through medical research (if there is indeed a bio-neurological basis for GD - the jury's still out as noted previously), there will always be a very small amount of medical transitioners. should society toss away all rights for the 99% of people who don't suffer from this condition? obviously not, but society will still need to find a way of incorporating them nonetheless. regardless, this onus should not fall onto LGB, how society should incorporate this very small percentage of extreme GD cases is not an LGB issue, that is strictly a T issue, and i think is in line with what LGBdroptheT stands for.

[–]lazy-summer-godSuper Gay[S] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

we cannot separate our sexual orientation from our sex, they go hand in hand.

Oh, fully agreed. I just found that 'sex' is always the deciding factor of one's orientation. Some trans men pass as males to some less observant folk and the true "oops, attraction gone" moment is always taking off the underwear for them.

every time there's an article with the headline about a woman committing sexual assault, and then you read closer and find out it's a trans woman that's being referred to as she/her, and is being sent to a woman's prison, and this crime is being documented under female crime statistics, that is a problem, because it obscures the root of the issue - that it was an act of male violence

That's a very interesting point. But then it's a case of language manipulation and it goes more into the field of journalism ethics.

furthermore, distancing trans men from the term "woman" is damaging to trans men as well - trans men are still female and thus still subject to the same heightened threat of sexual assault as the rest of us other females, they still require female healthcare, they still need abortion and birth control access, they grew up as girls and thus share commons experiences with other women, etc.

Fully agreed but then, they made this choice and risk themselves (or did they? That's one of the true issues: trans people should be always well informed of the consequences of their actions and TRAs really don't like that idea for some reason) and it should be respected.

i understand the motivation to reach a compromise, but i don't see how it's possible without damaging implications for the female class. language is important for identifying our persecutions and passing laws protecting us from them. and because lesbians and female bisexuals belong to this female class, this is why "misgendering" is an issue for us.

I truly believe this problem is a result of their actions to erase sex and let the gender (which they know how to control) be responsible for things. That needs to change. Sex is clearly a very important factor and we need to defend this concept.

i see in the thread both you and cuteasduck briefly argue about brain-sex. brain-sex is still a hotly debated topic as there is conflicting research on it. until a scientific consensus is reached, believing or not believing that "someone can be born in the wrong sexed body" is simply a matter of personal opinion at this point.

Hence why I said "I believe" not "I know".

And I never told this person that they have to believe as well.

a lot of people in this server aren't going to like this, but the truth is, people with extreme lifelong chronic GD exist, and sometimes medical transition is the only option to alleviate symptoms for them. i do believe they're the minority of current trans-identified people, and most GD can be treated without medical transition, but there will always be exceptional cases. and until there's a cure for extreme GD, either through changing social norms and abolishing gender roles or through medical research (if there is indeed a bio-neurological basis for GD - the jury's still out as noted previously), there will always be a very small amount of medical transitioners. should society toss away all rights for the 99% of people who don't suffer from this condition? obviously not, but society will still need to find a way of incorporating them nonetheless. regardless, this onus should not fall onto LGB, how society should incorporate this very small percentage of extreme GD cases is not an LGB issue, that is strictly a T issue, and i think is in line with what LGBdroptheT stands for.

Again, very interesting point and I agree that it's not our issue in a greater scheme of things. But it is a little bit our issue, hear me out: our movement is gaining friction. More and more people in shitholes like Twitter or Facebook start to notice the truth being TQ+. The moment when we will have to prove that we're not hateful group is coming. If we fail to deliver, our cause will start moving backwards. Rational people whose voices matter won't support us if they see us using the same transphobic rhetorics as right-wing lunatics.

This is a game, just like everything is. If we play it out badly, they will win. It is what it is.

[–][deleted] 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

yeah i do see your last point, and i agree that this movement will attract hateful people that are more interested in insults and mockery than actual LGB rights and issues, and it's important to ensure that those people's voices don't speak for the majority.

[–]censorshipment 31 insightful - 16 fun31 insightful - 15 fun32 insightful - 16 fun -  (1 child)

I took his shirt off and he was wearing a bra and had breasts.

😩 the audacity of "pre-op" and "no-op" women leading gay men on. Gay men don't want to see nor touch funbags. At least work out and turn your tits into muscular pecs like female bodybuilders do. Lol

[–]wafflegaffWoman. SuperBi. 22 insightful - 1 fun22 insightful - 0 fun23 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

This being the original problem: Her denial and entitlement.

[–]Dromedary 30 insightful - 11 fun30 insightful - 10 fun31 insightful - 11 fun -  (1 child)

I knew he was also trans too though... I guess I didn't exactly understand what being a top means if you're trans and don't have a penis.

Sorry, this guy's an idiot.

[–]wafflegaffWoman. SuperBi. 19 insightful - 2 fun19 insightful - 1 fun20 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

He definitely did something to himself to get that far with this line of thinking. Self-gaslighting comes to mind, as promoted by TRAs.

He needs a wingman, at all times.

[–][deleted] 31 insightful - 9 fun31 insightful - 8 fun32 insightful - 9 fun -  (0 children)

If only there was a way in which he could articulate his sexual orientation so that this kind of problem could be avoided in the future.

[–]RedEyedWarriorGay | Male | 🇮🇪 Irish 🇮🇪 | Antineoliberal | Cocks are Compulsory 21 insightful - 2 fun21 insightful - 1 fun22 insightful - 2 fun -  (2 children)

Sometimes, progressive liberals just have to learn life lessons the hard way. I know it might sound cruel, but it is common sense that people born female don’t have penises. Gay people need to stop pandering to transsexuals and allow the split to happen. Even if you genuinely buy into the notion that a woman can become a man through surgery and hormones, - and vice versa - you should still acknowledge that the parts are not the same. Anyway, good on OP for learning his lesson and saying no in the end.

[–]lovelyspearmintLesbeing a lesbian 12 insightful - 1 fun12 insightful - 0 fun13 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

But the issue arises that if he says no, or rejects the person some other way, there can dire consequences, as in the person can dox them or do something worse.

[–]RedEyedWarriorGay | Male | 🇮🇪 Irish 🇮🇪 | Antineoliberal | Cocks are Compulsory 16 insightful - 2 fun16 insightful - 1 fun17 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

There is the risk of doxing. But if you say yes, they still own you and can dox eventually anyway.

[–]lazy-summer-godSuper Gay[S] 15 insightful - 1 fun15 insightful - 0 fun16 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

[–]wafflegaffWoman. SuperBi. 12 insightful - 1 fun12 insightful - 0 fun13 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

Don't forget you can use https://archive.today/ and they'll do that part for you. Works on Reddit fairly well, but not all sites. Facebook tends to need the Imgur method, for example. (And then you can archive that if you like.)

https://archive.ph/mLQSd

[–]lazy-summer-godSuper Gay[S] 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Thanks. The only thing I ever remember in this link is the word "archive" and Google doesn't really help with finding this site just thanks to that word. I'll just save your comment now.

[–]NutterButterFlutterStill waving into the void 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

That archive site has to change their URL pretty commonly (I forget why) ... it's been archive.today, archive.is, archive.vn, archive.ph ... etc ... if you use Firefox, you can install their browser extension, and then it'll be right there at a click for you!

[–]crodish 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I use archive.is, here's the mirror too just in case:

https://archive.is/jsYXl

[–]wafflegaffWoman. SuperBi. 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Same site as archive.ph, archive.vn, and archive.today; I am not sure if there are other domains that also point to this site.

https://archive.ph/jsYXl https://archive.today/jsYXl https://archive.vn/jsYXl

[–]MarkJeffersonTight defenses and we draw the line 13 insightful - 1 fun13 insightful - 0 fun14 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

This sounds so amazingly naïve. Woke propaganda really has done a number on peoples common sense.

[–]pacsatonifil 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

That was a wild post and it made me feel so uncomfortable reading it. Though if this person is clearly female what was he expecting?

[–][deleted] 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

eggplantemoji is trans? that explains ALOT lol

silentchief really does need some therapy though. and to log off the internet every once in a while.

[–]Tikiri 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I think he should take screenshots of all their online interactions, messages etc. in case she does end up throwing a hissy fit and doxxing/reporting him. Otherwise, she can accuse him of all kinds of “transphobia”, “trauma” etc., and he’ll have nothing to defend himself with.

[–]Rag3 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Wait. Wha?

The most confusing part for me was he said he was a "top." Being the thirsty bottom bitch I am, I thought, "The most confusing part for me was he said he was a "top." Being the thirsty bottom bitch I am, I thought, "Well cool, he's a guy and he's a top, that's enough for me." I knew he was also trans too though... I guess I didn't exactly understand what being a top means if you're trans and don't have a penis. I should have given it more thought before meeting him. It's just a confusing situation all together" I knew he was also trans too though... I guess I didn't exactly understand what being a top means if you're trans and don't have a penis. I should have given it more thought before meeting him. It's just a confusing situation all together.

[–]lovelyspearmintLesbeing a lesbian 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Do actual gay men call themselves 'thirsty bottom bitches'?

[–]TiredTrendersSuper-gay 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Believe it or not. They do, and it really makes me uncomfortable everytime I hear a guy call himself such.

[–]usehername 6 insightful - 2 fun6 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

Was he expecting her to bring a strap-on?

[–]hufflepuff-poet 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

What else could she bring to the table for "gay sex"? 😂😭