LifestyleEasier time making friends than keeping them...

submitted by PeakingPeachEaterfemale♀ | detrans🦎 | eater of peaches 🍑 from (self.LGBDropTheT)

Hello LGB peeps.

Just been thinking about friendships...

I've been talking to a friend of mine that's the G part of LGB. He works at old TQ+ job still, while I do not.

We have quite a bit in common but then when it comes to the topic of T, it feels awkward and the subject gets changed quickly each time.

Basically, trying to see if he is #DroptheT, or at least mildly. I know my views might be a bit more extreme than some (I'm completely against transitioning) so I keep it subtle.

We were talking about former trans male boss, and how he "came out" as polyarmorous at work...just randomly in group chat and talked about his life with where he grew up, it's a very "phobic" area. My G friend happens to be from that area, and said it's "not phobic" at all and wasn't sure if "she"(our boss) is lying.

I basically said "Idk maybe during boss's time it was? Since "she" is older than us"

And G friend still had some doubts, so I said "Maybe "she" isnt being truthful? "She" transitioned late when "she" moved here and didn't live in your region"...

Then the topic got switched over to something else after. Anytime we talk about the T in general, it starts to get switched over after.

Then we got in a weird discuss about men and makeup. I was joking around about putting makeup on my male partner and he got upset and said "let men be men, men shouldn't wear makeup and look like [insert famous male makeup artist]"...

Okay... I told him I was just messing around and don't really care for makeup. I only wear makeup every once in a blue moon myself. I don't think people HAVE to wear it, but if they want to, then cool.

He kept mentioning that men should be masculine, men should be XYZ, and listed specific makeup items that men can use but that's it...

And I said "Oh okay, I see" but he kept going on for a little bit.

I changed the subject after, but he didn't say anything.

He just stopped talking to me, and I'm sure it's not a big deal, but I feel a bit weirded out because he ended up talking only in group chat after instead of our DM...

He's even mentioned certain trans people who are known to be notoriously bad(even he thinks so) by they preferred pronouns...which uh...

Anyways...

I guess...I feel like it gets awkward when I make friends? They warm up to me extremely quickly(ex. Come to my wedding! Come visit me in XYZ city! Let's go on a vacation together!) and my alarm bells go off and I get scared off after awhile.

I've dealt with a stalker TQ+ former coworker before who texted me months after I quit the job just to berate me and call me a "fake friend" despite her implying I'm an idiot all the time and putting me down. I tried to help her get good job, and she put me down for that and pretty much scuffed at me and "good luck, you won't have the schedule you want and blah blah". When I got good job, she then asked for application, but I didn't reply back to her after how she treated me.

Anyways, all the good friends I have live outside the country and I failed them after I went thru some stuff and disappeared. I came back to explain what happened...and disappeared again. Those were my true good friends that I lost.

TLDR; I can make friend easy but I fucking suck at keeping them or making good ones. I ghosted my good friends and feel like a POS. Whenever I make friends now, they're either toxic or raise some red flags. Makes me nervous.

TLDR 2: I think I offended my G friend about men wearing makeup when I joked about wanting to put it on my male partner? He says that's "unmasculine" and men shouldn't wear it, now he's not talking to me...Confused about reaction...

Questions

1.) Do you have an easy time making AND keeping friends?

2) Do you have many friends or a few? Are you close to them?

3) Do you have separate "work friends", "hobby friends" and all around "good/close friend"?

4) What do you look for in a friend?

5) How do you handle disagreements between you and your friend, or between both of your friends while you're around them?

6) Have you ever had an "enemy" turn into a friend or a "friend" turn into an enemy?

7) Additional thoughts?

Here's my previous post on friendship: What's a "True" Friend?

Here's some info on the TQ+ coworker: Dealing with salty TQ+ former coworker

And the TQ+ saga for those interested...No More Dealing with TQ+!

Edit: word & format

Edit 2: I usually use correct sex pronouns, but used "she" to describe our trans male boss. And nope, I didn't use quotes each time I said she to my G friend lol. That'd just be plain strange.

Edit 3: If you're part of the G, could you give me insight on what my friend was saying about masculinity? Was I out of line?? Idk if maybe I triggered something and made him upset.

Edit 4: Friend and I are good lol, I was overthinking it man. Been "ghosted" before so wasn't sure...

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[–]lovelyspearmintLesbeing a lesbian 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

I don't have a lot of friends, and I've only made a few new friends since high school. I've lost a couple of friends because of TQ (one suddenly cut off ties with me when she got embroiled in it, and the other had TQ friends who spied on our conversations in public and told them that they shouldn't talk about those things in public, so I cut off contact with the person). The few friends I do have have TQ and non-binary friends, and I have to be careful about pronouns and shit when I'm around them, and I have a close friend who understands me but I don't talk to them about this whole mess, not that they're pro TQ or anything. I haven't had disagreements with my current friends, but I also censor myself a bit when I'm around some of them so that conflict doesn't arise.

[–]PeakingPeachEaterfemale♀ | detrans🦎 | eater of peaches 🍑[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Oh dang, I'm sorry! That bites that you lost friends due to TQ idealogy. I had a few good friends back in college days, but I moved around so much and they're now about 1,000 kilometers away...it's hard to keep in touch and we're in different phases in our lives. But I feel if we met again, we'd left off where we were.

The recent people I became "friends" with are from my former TQ+ job. They were very left-wing americans---they used to talk about politics all day...talking about how "great" Biden is and getting excited that Trump might die...eh...they would get mad if you disagreed with their politics, so after awhile I stopped engaging with them. I think I won't mix work & friendships so much anymore and keep it more mellow at acquaintance level.

Ah, I see. Did they recently change to non-binary or TQ? Perhaps they may come around given time. It's good you also have a friend that understands you. It's always nice to have support! My brothers, if they count, would be considered my best and only current friends at the moment. Otherwise, not really any friend-friends outside of work-related.

I feel you on the censor thing, I have to do that around everyone except my brothers and partner lol.

[–]lovelyspearmintLesbeing a lesbian 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

One wanted to remove their breasts (but not be non-binary or trans somehow?), whereas the other was asexual but straight, so neither were TQ themselves, but they're very much in and for that ideology.

Once they've behaved that way, or I've seen how easily led they are, I decided I don't want to rekindle those friendships with those sorts of people, because who is to say that they won't do the same thing when another trend comes up, maybe even one that's worse than this?

I'm glad to hear you've got support too!

[–]YoutiaoLover 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

He says that's "unmasculine" and men shouldn't wear it. [...] If you're part of the G, could you give me insight on what my friend was saying about masculinity?

Not a gay man, but this view isn't exclusive to gay men. Apparently a lot of men and women think that men embracing femininity would ruin society (remember when Harry Styles wore a dress for magazine cover a while ago? The reactions were hilarious).

I find it funny that when makeup is mentioned people almost always think about full face makeup (blush, fake eyelashes, lipstick with colors that obviously unnatural, etc.) and flinch at the idea of it on a man; while irl men in entertainment professions like actors and newscasters wear makeup all the time. I have male friends who don't mind their female friends putting full face makeup on them for fun. It depends on the person, but most people don't like the idea of feminine men.

Questions

Just like you, I make friends easily but I don't like long distance communication and tend to ghost them. Sorry, friends! Tbh any form of socializing drains me out, but long distance is the worst.

Friends are people I emotionally connected to despite our different interests, the rest (like work friends) are acquaintances to me. I keep a certain distance even to my very few closest friends though--I think I know way more about them than they about me. Kinda off topic, I don't usually make friends with my friends' partners unless they're both friends with me before they hit if off.

In friendships, I tend to listen more than I talk (energy saving) and try to not talk about personal belief or religion. I keep the topics revolve around usual stuff; like movies, trending restaurants or their kids. Maybe that's why I don't (think I) have any enemy or have any friendship-ending disagreements.

For a friend, I look for tolerance, the ability to agree to disagree and focus on our similarities instead of differences. About disagreement between friends, I listen to both sides and refuse to remain neutral. Not in the sense of attacking the one in the wrong, but in the sense that I tell the right one they're right and make the wrong one see their mistake so that we can come up with a peaceful solution.

I failed them after I went thru some stuff and disappeared. I came back to explain what happened...and disappeared again.

Whoa, are you me? I used to feel guilty for not keeping in touch with my friends. Now wishing happy birthdays, anniversaries, New Years and sending presents are regular low energy ways for me to keep my friendships going (and prevents them for thinking I wanna borrow money when I suddenly contact them lol). Not the best way to be up to date about their life, of course, but it works for me. Maybe that could work for you, too?

[–]Kai_Decadence 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

but most people don't like the idea of feminine men.

And this is part of the problem that created this trans nonsense. I'm not saying it's the only one but it's certainly one of them and I say this as a feminine gay man who does wear makeup, skirts, and has a very non-masculine appearance. I've seen how some people treat me because of it (including my parents), it's not a good feeling at all but this is why I can see why other feminine men, specifically gay feminine men would try to opt out of it and yammer on about how they actually are women so they can avoid the disapproval, harassment, and social rejection.

[–]YoutiaoLover 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

I agree. Rigid gender stereotypes is one of trans most prominent characteristics and the only way they could attempt to "pass". Without it, it'd be harder for the nonsense to get this far.

I wish society would let us do whatever we want with our looks as long as it's occasion appropriate and/or safe for children.

[–]Kai_Decadence 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Agree 100%

[–]PeakingPeachEaterfemale♀ | detrans🦎 | eater of peaches 🍑[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I wish society would let us do whatever we want with our looks as long as it's occasion appropriate and/or safe for children.

Exactly, we should be able to do what we want. I have people comment everytime I cut my hair short. It's customary for me to grow out my hair for a year then I chop it into a pixie cut/short haircut haha. Men always say I should've kept it and women say "Wow, you're so brave, I could never do that!" Okay....

Also about appropriate/safe for children, agreed on that too. I hate that they're allowing children to wear hyper sexualize "drag" costumes. Why can't they keep it normal and feminine like Pierre XO(he's more punk-rock in style) and (some) of Miles Kai's outfits?

[–]PeakingPeachEaterfemale♀ | detrans🦎 | eater of peaches 🍑[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Yeah, I was curious. I told him I was just basically gonna do a no makeup-makeup look ..like hollywood or idol but that's unacceptable to him. He said men can only put on foundation and eyeliner?? Idk, just confused. I asked my brothers and partner(all straight men) and they said "of course men don't like makeup" and they found it weird that my G friend would be OK with foundation or eyeliner. Then when I said my friend was gay, they all went "Wait WHAT? That doesn't make any sense!" Uhm...not all gay men wear makeup?? Lol so their uh...view is a bit skewed too.

Personally, if a man wants to wear makeup, I really don't care. I only care if us women are FORCED to while they don't lol. I mentioned that certain eastern countries have men wearing makeup as the norm and my G friend still thought it was weird/wrong. Idk, I mean... It just depends on the culture. I feel bad for gender nonconforming men now...they must get a lot of shit for being themselves, I know I did when I was extremely GNC, got told to "wear makeup" and "grow out your hair" all the time to "look pretty"/"Why did you cut your hair? You were so pretty!" Wow lol.

while irl men in entertainment professions like actors and newscasters wear makeup all the time. I have male friends who don't mind their female friends putting full face makeup on them for fun. It depends on the person, but most people don't like the idea of feminine men.

Exactly!!! It's common for people in entertainment to have makeup, and hell, even plastic surgery.

I just wonder if maybe I said something triggering by accident that made him go off? I don't know if I should apologize or what happened? Just confused...

Just like you, I make friends easily but I don't like long distance communication and tend to ghost them. Sorry, friends! Tbh any form of socializing drains me out, but long distance is the worst.

Damn dude, yes that's me. I get drained too easily and tired. I need a LOT of space to recoup man. People think I'm extroverted because I can be a clown or jokester, but I'm an introvert lol. Introverted ≠ shy, we're not SHY at all, that's why many don't think I'm introverted lol. They only seen the "energized" side of me. My partner is extroverted in comparison to me. He likes to be around his friends/family constantly.

Friends are people I emotionally connected to despite our different interests, the rest (like work friends) are acquaintances to me. I keep a certain distance even to my very few closest friends though--I think I know way more about them than they about me. Kinda off topic, I don't usually make friends with my friends' partners unless they're both friends with me before they hit if off.

I can relate to that too!! I tried in past to become friends with coworkers to "get out of my shell" but...I'm not going to try anymore. Just keep it at acquaintances. I do have a boss that games tho, so we just talk about work only and videogames. That's it lol. Going to play games together later. I'm keeping it as mellow as possible.

In friendships, I tend to listen more than I talk (energy saving) and try to not talk about personal belief or religion. I keep the topics revolve around usual stuff; like movies, trending restaurants or their kids. Maybe that's why I don't (think I) have any enemy or have any friendship-ending disagreements.

I used to be like that all the time, but ended up trying to "open up" and I regret that now lol. I'm just going to stick to doing what I know best, and keep it more closed off and reserved until I get to know them better. I've had people randomly come up to me and ask personal questions, and I'll answer it honestly(though sometimes vaguely haha), then they wanna continue talking about those topics. In particular, when it's political, I may mention something briefly, and then they think I agree with EVERYTHING they say. It's tiring.

For a friend, I look for tolerance, the ability to agree to disagree and focus on our similarities instead of differences. About disagreement between friends, I listen to both sides and refuse to remain neutral. Not in the sense of attacking the one in the wrong, but in the sense that I tell the right one they're right and make the wrong one see their mistake so that we can come up with a peaceful solution.

I had a really good friend like that! But I moved...and he's technically my trans male cousin's friend. We hit it off good as friend's though. He does agree with me in regards to transitioning. He told me in private he was worried about my cousin transitioning and talked about it a little bit. We don't agree with everything politically, he's right leaning, I'm unaligned--used to be left leaning lol. He's really mellow and easy to talk to, and explains his views eloquently.

Whoa, are you me? I used to feel guilty for not keeping in touch with my friends. Now wishing happy birthdays, anniversaries, New Years and sending presents are regular low energy ways for me to keep my friendships going (and prevents them for thinking I wanna borrow money when I suddenly contact them lol). Not the best way to be up to date about their life, of course, but it works for me. Maybe that could work for you, too?

That sounds like a really good idea!! I'll have to look into doing that. :-) Once I get...some friends again lol. It's kinda been too long to contact them again, we're on good terms, it's just...awkward. I also don't have the big social media like Facebook, Twitter, Instagram or any of that type---most use that stuff but I don't want to. I give them my email address and phone# and we talk old school if they want to reach me.

[–]YoutiaoLover 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I just wonder if maybe I said something triggering by accident that made him go off? I don't know if I should apologize or what happened?

Maybe he wants to distance from the image gay=feminine that he had a strong reaction to it? Just like your brothers and partners, a lot of non gays think gay men are feminine. I don't think you should apologize though. It's not like you told him to wear makeup. You just expressed your opinion and there's nothing wrong with that!

In particular, when it's political, I may mention something briefly, and then they think I agree with EVERYTHING they say. It's tiring.

Uh, this. A lot of times I don't want people to misunderstand me but just thinking of refuting them makes me tired lol.

I had a really good friend like that! But I moved...and he's technically my trans male cousin's friend. We hit it off good as friend's though. He does agree with me in regards to transitioning. He told me in private he was worried about my cousin transitioning and talked about it a little bit. We don't agree with everything politically, he's right leaning, I'm unaligned--used to be left leaning lol. He's really mellow and easy to talk to, and explains his views eloquently.

Yes, he's the kind of friend I'm talking about!! He sounds like a great company.

It's kinda been too long to contact them again, we're on good terms, it's just...awkward. I also don't have the big social media like Facebook, Twitter, Instagram or any of that type---most use that stuff but I don't want to. I give them my email address and phone# and we talk old school if they want to reach me.

I get you, I feel reluctant to contact my friends after disappearing. But I think they'd love to hear from you. I know I would lol! It's a pleasant surprise to hear from old friends you haven't seen for so long.

By the way, your reply had me laughing because it's so relatable! From your opinion about wearing makeup, how you need space to recoup, how introverts like us aren't shy, your experience with coworkers and trying to open up, I relate to them all 😂

[–]Kai_Decadence 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

  1. Honestly no. I've always been introverted and pretty shy and it was always hard for me to make friends but even worse, keeping them due to me not being able to handle being in groups of people. I noticed that whenever I did make a friend and they introduced me into a group, I never fared well and the initial friend I have stops interacting with me as much as they find they have more in common with their already established friend(s). So no, it's always been tough for me making friends.

  2. I really only have a very small handful and they're online. I don't have IRL friends who I visit on the regular and hang out with and it's been that way ever since I was a junior in high school (I'm 30 now). I actually lost a lot of my other online friends when I came out in support of JK Rowling and came out as Gender Critical admitting that I don't believe in Transgender ideology and that men can't become women or vice versa.

  3. None right now if we're talking IRL. Online, I have only 3 friends I associate with and it's mostly through hobby.

  4. I mainly just look for having things in common, fairly positive attitude (they don't have to be happy all the time but what I mean is jut trying to see the bright side of things and not dwell too much on the negative), and patience.

  5. It's been so long but really, I just agree to disagree if we can't come eye to eye on a subject matter.

  6. I remember there was a girl who used to bully men when I was in 5th grade who I ended up becoming friends with for awhile in my 8th grade year lol.

[–]PeakingPeachEaterfemale♀ | detrans🦎 | eater of peaches 🍑[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Hi Kai! :)

Yeah...Groups are too much sometimes. I always end up in "trio groups" somehow. The pro to it is that I wont have complete focus or attention on me(i hate getting any attention...) but the bad thing is I usually end up as the 'designated leader', aka "What fun activities are you going to plan for us today Peach?". .___. The only 'good' thing I can say about a big groups(5+ peeps) is that I get to melt in the background, but there's a lot of cons too lol.

I noticed that whenever I did make a friend and they introduced me into a group, I never fared well and the initial friend I have stops interacting with me as much as they find they have more in common with their already established friend(s).

If you don't mind me asking, does it usually occur due to not having similar interests or perhaps they didn't get to know you well?

I ask because...

I make friendly chat with people, then they want to be "besties" and it doesn't end to well for our friendship due to 1) getting overwhelmed by the sudden transition from acquaintances to friends and shutting down 2) They don't know me well...And usually we have only ONE mutual interest but nothing else in common or nothing else interesting to talk about except for one subject... and 3)...I don't want the same type of friendship that they want. I want someone who can fair well with being alone and not fill in the silence with idle chatter and expecting me to answer to everything they say and having to be around each other 24/7(i had clingy friends in the past...)

I actually lost a lot of my other online friends when I came out in support of JK Rowling and came out as Gender Critical admitting that I don't believe in Transgender ideology and that men can't become women or vice versa.

Dang, I'm sorry to hear about that! :-( I mentioned in another comment that I had a friend, I'll call him vaquero, he was my trans male cousin's friend, but we hit it off as friends too. Vaquero's right-leaning, I'm unaligned/moderate(used to be left-leaning and shook out of that completely), even when we had disagreements, he was very respectful and shared his views in eloquent and polite ways. We were both actually in agree about being against my cousin transitioning and spoke in private...We were both concerned for him and the sudden change---it seems like he is getting abused by his parents who treat him like shit was our conclusion---my uncle and aunt are despicable to be honest...

Then in the flip side i became aquainted with stalky pansexual (former) coworker who gets ANGRY if you disagree with her woke™ views and treats you like an idiot. It was tiring. I cut her off after, and she still texted me to berate me months after. According to G (former) coworker, she's off her meds and ended up quitting the job so she'd unemployed now. So...yep...

None right now if we're talking IRL. Online, I have only 3 friends I associate with and it's mostly through hobby.

Same boat, no IRL friends unless my brothers count?? But they don't really stay in contact, i have to make the effort all the time, idk if I wanna keep making the effort... As for online friends...I think I have mostly in acquaintance level close to friend level?? I like them and would consider as friend, but don't know how they feel about me, so I'd say acquaintances for now haha.

I mainly just look for having things in common, fairly positive attitude (they don't have to be happy all the time but what I mean is jut trying to see the bright side of things and not dwell too much on the negative), and patience.

Those are good traits to have for sure! I like friends that are also productive and inspired, because it motivates me.

[–]Q-Continuum-kin 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I'm kind of antisocial so I'm usually the one avoiding people but the few times people have ghosted me were over either TQ+ opinions or politics related to me not willing to agree that Hillary Clinton was some leftist hero. She's a performatively woke version of Richard Nixon... (Unfriended ghosted deleted from games)

[–]PeakingPeachEaterfemale♀ | detrans🦎 | eater of peaches 🍑[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I don't know what it is, but some people get REALLY touchy about politicians. Because I am minority in this current country I reside in, these "woke" people try to speak for me and tell me who I should "vote for". No thanks.

That's crazy that someone unfriended you over a difference in opinion. :/ I had a friend(well, my trans males cousin's friend, but he was cool) who voted for Trump, but I really don't care. I care about the person, not their politics, unless their politics is all that person is(boring) and they preach all day then goodbye.👋

But anyways haha, I can relate due to recent events of TQ+ former co-workers. They were annoying to talk to and got aggressive when I didn't have much of an opinion for Biden(they expected me to praise him like they did). Just don't care about that stuff.

[–]Dadscloaca 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

1.) Do you have an easy time making AND keeping friends?

Yes

2) Do you have many friends or a few? Are you close to them?

I have a lot of friends, I would say I'm pretty close to about half of them, the other half I'm cordial with

3) Do you have separate "work friends", "hobby friends" and all around "good/close friend"?

Yes. Also, "Work friends" don't exist. There are people who I get along with at work, but they are not friends because my relationship with them could affect my job, which affect my ability to not die.

4) What do you look for in a friend?

A pulse-rate and shared experiences.

5) How do you handle disagreements between you and your friend, or between both of your friends while you're around them?

A lot of it is just having empathy and honesty when you talk to the people you care about.

6) Have you ever had an "enemy" turn into a friend or a "friend" turn into an enemy?

No, I don't have time in my life for people I do not care for. I've had disagreements/fights with friends, but we work through it.

[–]PeakingPeachEaterfemale♀ | detrans🦎 | eater of peaches 🍑[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Minor update: Friend and I are good haha. I was making a mountain over molehill. Just wasn't sure if he was gonna ghost me... experienced that in the past and wasn't sure if I fucked up this time or what I should do. .__. I'm terrible at keeping friends.