Men's IssuesVICE - "The Straight Men Who Have Sex with Trans Women" (i.e, gay men who lie to themselves)

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[–][deleted] 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

With you 100% on that. Research on female sexuality is so painfully under-studied for many reasons, one of which is benevolent sexism. There was someone on GC a while ago who argued with me insisting that women can never have paraphilias. I'm like, you're chatting with a woman with at least one paraphilia lol. That's why I take what Blanchard says with a grain of salt. His research was very illuminating on AGP and HSTS types of transwomen, but his views on paraphilias in women (and his views on female sexuality in general) are bullshit. As is most sex research done on women. Because when we finally do get a team of people willing to research things, they go into it with biases that women are 'too pure' to experience certain things.

If I see research that highlights GAMP men into transmen then I will concede that some GAMP men can be straight, with a paraphilia for transitioned individuals. Until that day though, they're bi. And I think we're in agreement on that, given we have no evidence to prove otherwise.

I also agree that AGP is very different from GAMP. AGP men can exhibit 'pseudobisexuality' in that they fantasize about sleeping with a man, as a woman. But those are cases where the focus is on the idea of themselves as women, not a genuine attraction to men. It's also why they so often go after lesbians when they could very easily date straight women. Because the validation they seek eclipses all else. Very different from GAMP in that GAMP men are focused on male individuals with mixed sex characteristics. GAMP is a paraphilia where the focus is on the erotic target, AGP is a paraphilia that is focused on oneself. It's the same with AAP in women. (I know because I have AAP).

[–]reluctant_commenter 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

Ah, it really does sound like we are on the same page then :)

Because when we finally do get a team of people willing to research things, they go into it with biases that women are 'too pure' to experience certain things.

Agreed. I would also add, it seems that there are no analogous methods/tools of physically measuring women's sexual arousal to the methods/tools available for men, and a lot of confusion about female anatomy. Add to that, the TQ-dominated media is ready to ruin the career and reputation of anyone who even attempts to study these topics with biological reality in mind (let alone do it without sexism), and we end up with very little research. It's frustrating as hell.

GAMP is a paraphilia where the focus is on the erotic target, AGP is a paraphilia that is focused on oneself.

That's a really great way of putting it. I think this distinction is where some people's brains get fried, unfortunately, hahaha.

It's the same with AAP in women. (I know because I have AAP).

Oh, really? Wait, do you mind if I ask a little about what that's like? I'm curious how different it might feel to have AAP and be drawn to a women because it feels validating vs. being attracted a woman just for her own sake. But if you would rather not talk about it, no pressure!

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

I think I saw something that allows researchers to measure bloodflow to the clitoris, but those tools aren't common. And I agree with the current climate studying 'female' sexuality and not 'vagina owner' sexuality would be difficult.

I'm curious how different it might feel to have AAP and be drawn to a women because it feels validating vs. being attracted a woman just for her own sake.

So, I can't speak for other women with AAP but I think for me, part of it stemmed from internalized homo/biphobia. When I was first going through puberty and coming into my sexuality and dealing with hormones and all that I had it in my head that the 'right' way to have sex with a woman was as a man. Combine that with the fact that on some level I always hated being female, was very dysphoric on and off, and wished desperately I could be male, I think some wires got crossed somewhere and I developed AAP.

Just like with AGP, there are different types of AAP. I never had the 'behavioral' kind. Meaning wearing men's clothes or doing 'masculine' activities never turned me on. I just felt more comfortable. Would I have been turned on if I went on T, started passing as a man, and straight/bi women were attracted to me as a man? Probably so. I say that because my AAP is anatomical. The focus is on having a man's body, with most of the focus being on having a penis. That's where most of the arousal comes from for me. I'm sure Freud is cheering in his grave somewhere.

Jokes aside though it definitely goes deeper than just 'penis envy' for me. What I had to examine was if I was truly attracted to women or just the idea of having sex with a woman as a man. Once I got to college and could actually be physically intimate with women I realized my attraction was genuine, but that the paraphilia was still there.

[–]reluctant_commenter 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

When I was first going through puberty and coming into my sexuality and dealing with hormones and all that I had it in my head that the 'right' way to have sex with a woman was as a man.

I relate to that, too.

Thank you for describing, I appreciate it. Your story makes me wonder if perhaps there are more gay/bisexual women with AAP than we think, as opposed to just the straight female "yaoi fetishists" crowd-- if perhaps the different "subtypes" e.g. anatomical, behavioral, etc. might reflect different etiologies or paths of origin. I want to say that the youtuber GNC Centric might have something of a similar experience? But I might be mixing her up with someone else.

What I had to examine was if I was truly attracted to women or just the idea of having sex with a woman as a man. Once I got to college and could actually be physically intimate with women I realized my attraction was genuine, but that the paraphilia was still there.

Totally makes sense.

[–][deleted] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Your story makes me wonder if perhaps there are more gay/bisexual women with AAP than we think

I think so too. When I first learned that it had a name I found these small pockets of the internet where women admitted they fantasized about having a penis and getting off to those thoughts. Never heard of a woman irl describe that though, and it felt really alienating.

I want to say that the youtuber GNC Centric might have something of a similar experience?

Yup!! When I first peaked and stopped identifying as trans she was one of the first people I found. Her story was very interesting. A lesbian who was so deep in the trans cult she thought she was a gay man, and also had some AAP. There was one video she did where she talked about how sometimes she could 'feel' a penis resting on her leg. Crazy shit.

[–]reluctant_commenter 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Really!! Okay, I really have to watch her videos now. It is crazy shit. Power of the human mind, I guess.

Again, thanks for talking more about it :)