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[–]reluctant_commenter 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Saying he is making "broad generalizations about lesbians" doesn't mean that many lesbians (or at least people who claim to be us) online don't act that way.

  1. Yes, many people who claim to be us may be this way-- that doesn't mean it IS us! It's unfair to condemn female homosexuals because some straight women decided to LARP as lesbians for political reasons. It would be just as unfair to judge lesbians by the AGP men on r/actuallesbians.

  2. He still is making broad generalizations and that is against one of this sub's rules:

  1. General Guidelines / Civility: All LGB are welcome here. Be respectful of each other's differences. Discuss ideas, not individuals. No broad generalizations.

Even if some lesbians are that way, that is no justification to suggest that all are. For example, some number of gay men are misogynistic assholes, but it would be rude and unfair of me to say, "gay men are misognyistic assholes" because that suggests that they all are.

We should see how the homophobes speak about us, so we can have better reactions

I'm sorry, but what does this even mean? Are you suggesting he is a homophobe...? I've had plenty of homophobia already directed my way, thanks, I don't need to hear more from some random person on the internet.

and we need to hear how gay men view us since they are our opposites, just erase whatever misogyny you feel you have read

Nope, I'm going to call out anyone who says something illogical or hypocritical, regardless of whether I agree or disagree with the rest of their claims. I even call out people I like, and I hope they call me out when I make a mistake, too. You are personally free to stay silent when someone says something misogynistic or illogical, if that makes you happier. Also, this dude doesn't speak for all gay men.

and see if there is anything valuable there.

I can call out the illogical parts of what exponent2 said as illogical, and simultaneously agree with parts of what he is saying. Those are not mutually exclusive.

...I just showed up after the fact and was born in the west. All I am saying is that if gay white men did not exist, I find it very hard to believe that gay marriage would be legal here or gay people would have made the strides they have.

I agree and feel similarly; but I don't see anyone disagreeing with this, so what's the issue?

Never. Womens rights are important but the 98% of women that arent lesbians can handle it, while we focus on homosexual issues.

I can care about women's rights if I damn please, or not care. This is not all or nothing lol. It is possible to a) care about LGB rights, b) also care about women's rights, all while also c) not pretending that being lesbian is a "noble choice" (the radfems' approach). I would argue that it is important for at least some lesbians, those who have the energy for it, to be involved in women's rights activism because some heterosexual women are homophobic, and will try to condemn us and speak over us. But that doesn't mean that "being lesbian IS itself fundamentally a women's rights issue," that's bullshit.

If we dont listen to criticism, even if its harsh, we end up looking just like the TRA's, who have have a better pr campaign than us anyways.

Sweeping generalizations and ad hominems are not logical criticism, they're insults. This is Saidit, we are free to criticize each other and engage of dialogue but we do so following the Pyramid of Debate and exponent2 keeps making these sweeping generalizations about lesbians. You know what actually makes a person end up looking like a TRA? Judging female homosexuals' characters on the basis of their sexual orientation... like how exponent2 keeps doing.

part of activism is working with people on issues you agree with rather than arguing with gay men about stupid things like misogyny.

If any person says something illogical and hypocritical, it ought to be called out, and if a gay man says something misogynistic and inaccurate then I will still call it out as being inaccurate and ridiculous even though he is gay. I do not have to suck it up and smile when anyone is being misogynistic, same as I don't have to suck it up and smile when anyone is being homophobic. What kind of bullshit is that? You're free to do that if it makes you happy but expecting other women to is laughable. I just want to be treated equally-- equally regardless of sexual orientation AND equally regardless of sex.

Gay men arent out here abusing anything but the ego's of women,

What is this black-and-white world you live in, where lesbians are evil problem-causers and gay men do no wrong? We are all humans and equally capable of mistakes, bigotry, and kindness. Many gay men are chill, some are bigoted assholes; many lesbian women are chill, some are bigoted assholes. And no, sweeping generalizations and misogynistic comments are not just "abusing women's egos," they are about judging women's character qualities on the basis of sex. And that's some narcissistic bullshit.

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