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[–][deleted]  (23 children)

[deleted]

    [–]Nohope 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (22 children)

    "Boy, it would sure be nice if I could fit in better with the people who make up 99% of my social circle."

    That's not what OP said, pay attention to OP's words:

    Why do I still hate the fact that I'm "different" from other girls? I hate it so much that I'll never be like the other girls. I hate that I'll never understand them and what it's like to like guys

    I do know what it's like to have internalized homophobia - feeling ashamed and disgusted of myself for liking the same sex. I did feel those things at one point right after coming out and things not going well and losing friends etc etc.

    I NEVER wanted to be different ... And being gay forces me to "stand out" in a way that it's not "common" to be gay. And that I'm "forced" to face homophobia, to have a 'non traditional life' and to deal with an heteronormative society and all the crap lesbians still have to deal with.

    OP means that 1) she wants to know what it's like to like guys despite being a gay woman, and feels sad she doesn't know what it's like. 2) she hates being gay because she hates being different and she was discriminated against for being different.

    OP may not have directly said "I was ashamed of being gay for years and though I say I don't hate being gay now, I do because I can't understand straight people. I wish I were not gay and were straight to be normal. I hate being different and being forced to face discrimination", but she did indirectly and you can figure that out if you just put her words together.

    You are literally victim-blaming right now.

    Ah yes, telling self-hating gay people to stop enforcing the homophobic message that "being gay means being different. Being different is a curse, because you will feel alienated, isolated and depressed not being able to relate to the normal people, which means being gay is a curse" is "victim blaming" /s

    Go back to my other comment, I'm going to quote myself:

    This is a simple scenario I think will help you understand my view: A boy is constantly bullied for his long hair in school, as a result hates his long hair and hates being different. If you tell him "please continue to be depressed, repressing your hatred for your long hair will lead to a worse mental health! It's okay to hate having long hair. If you were normal, and just changed and cut it short, you wouldn't get bullied!", then you would be shamed and would be seen as evil by pretty much any sane individual I know, for holding the victim of bullying responsible partially or wholly for the attack that was committed against him and even daring to say it's fine to hate a part of himself.

    If he says that he hates his long hair and wants to get rid of it because if he had a short hair he would be normal and noone would bully him, that would also be considered victim blaming, since he is holding himself responsible for the attack eventhough he and his long hair are not at fault. Being different does not excuse bullying. And letting the bullied individual wallow in self-hatred is akin to letting depressed individuals cut themselves just because they think it can make them feel better and repressing the desire to cut would lead to a worse mental health.

    No, cutting isn't going to lead to a better mental health, nor will wallowing in self-hatred and hatred for being gay/different lead to a better mental health. While hating your being gay may bring a momentary sense of calm and a release of tension, it's usually followed by guilt and shame and the return of painful emotions, in general more hatred. It's just going to fuel the negative feelings, and will lead to a worse mental health.

    Not only that, when someone who is bullied hates a part of themselves, and bows down to the bullies, their attitude will help keep the cycle of bullying going, making them just as guilty and their bullies. They would no longer be mere victims, but perpetrators, as the other bullied people will learn from them that there is something wrong with them and wish they would change themselves for their bullies too.

    Now, gay people saying they hate being gay/different and wish they were "normal", and telling gay people who hate being gay that "it's okay to hate being gay, don't repress your hatred. If you were not gay you wouldn't be discriminated against and would have it easy!" are somehow seen as "fine" and are even celebrated. Reprehensible.

    Gay people get bullied in this heteronormative society, but the responsibility for bullying always belongs to the bullies, in other words the homophobes that discriminate against gay people and in general the straight people that force heteronormativity down gay people's throats. Not the gay people.

    Gay people, the victims, should not change themselves or hate being gay/different just because they are discriminated against for it. If gay people want to hate something, or someone, they should really hate the homophobes, and the straight people that force heteronormativity down their throats, not their being gay. And telling them otherwise will only keep the cycle of bullying going.

    I believe it is you who has no empathy for gay people. The victim blaming you help spread creates irresponsible cowards fine with gay people turning against their own best interests and against themselves.

    And if shame is what brings the self-hating gay people back to their senses to stop that vicious cycle they help continue that hurts other gay people then so be it.

    Um no, telling self-hating gay people that they should not hate being gay just because they are bullied for being gay is not victim blaming, just like telling that boy in my scenario that he shouldn't hate his long hair just because he's bullied for it is not victim blaming.

    It's actually the opposite of victim blaming.

    So apparently that makes me a coward. It doesn't matter at all what actions I took in spite of these feelings. Just having such feelings at all negates everything. What a great life lesson to teach the young folks.

    Never said the feelings negate what you did. You did good things, but they do not erase the fact that you deal with self-hatred, you admit that your actions don't match your own beliefs whenever you have these negative feelings about being gay (hypocritical much?), and what you teach other gay people from time to time is nothing but self-hatred, which means you did bad things too.

    Ok, great. You are morally superior to almost everyone, then. Go enjoy your moral superiority by yourself, as it isn't serving any purpose in this thread.

    I'm bored, and have nothing else to do for now. That's the only reason I came to this thread, and ngl you bore me out. Might leave, might not leave the thread. It depends on if you are going to continue being boring.

    [–][deleted]  (21 children)

    [deleted]

      [–]Nohope 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (20 children)

      You say, something like, "I know how you feel. I have felt this way before too. I'm sorry you're feeling like this." And then you let them cry and vent about it. Then you offer some encouraging words. Then they feel better.

      If you seriously believe that by being told "I know how you feel, I have felt this way before, I'm sorry", all the bad feelings self-hating gay people have are going to fly out of them, then I don't know what to tell you. Let's take you and OP. You vented here, OP vented, and you exchanged "I know how you feel so sorry you feel this way" for a few hours with the other people you interacted with. Are you two going to stop being self-hating after this? Or is it that all this venting, your feelings being acknowledged, and being told "I'm sorry you feel bad!" may momentarily work but will be useless in the next few days? How many times have you vented and gotten your feelings acknowledged before? If you have done this before, and came for more, I can guarantee you will soon have to have another venting session in reality, if not online.

      I have seen depressed and self-hating people, more than I can count, they operate the same way. They go: Vents -> Feels fine for a few days at max -> Goes back to feeling bad, needing their feelings to be acknowledged and venting yet again as though the previous venting session and getting their feelings acknowledged never happened

      Self-hating people suck all the energy out of the people they get sympathy from, and not only do they come back more self-hating than ever but also leave others drained. They are self-destructive and destroy those who want to help them.

      Why that is, is because self-loathing is not rational. The self-hater denies the very thing needed for them to improve (self-love), and so trying to help them improve and change fails most times.

      Even if telling self-hating gay people to "stop being self-hating" isn't going to fix them, acknowledging the feelings of self-hating gay people isn't a solution and isn't going to fix them either. So I will stick to "stop being self-hating".

      About me. I lost someone I cared about, but what I needed wasn't "honey I'm so sorry, I understand you". Most of the people saying that were not being genuine and didn't care. What I needed was to remember her and the memories we shared, not cry over having lost her. It happened, as saddening as it was. I needed a smack on the head to get up and get out of it stronger, not stay in bed for days and get upset, cry, and vent, those would do nothing.

      Whoever here hates themselves more because of something I said, raise your hands!

      Wow! Such a reliable way to get the stats! The results are totally not going to be skewed, and will be 100% reliable! /s

      Are you sure I'm boring you? You seem to be enjoy this.

      Hmm. True, if you were completely boring, I would have left already. That I haven't yet, means I enjoyed you