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[–]zerosis[S] 17 insightful - 1 fun17 insightful - 0 fun18 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

Sorry 'bout it, I guess. I have to ask though, why are you here? Genuinely curious, no shade. I'm not completely on board with GC because it seemed a little too extremist and man-hate-y for me.

[–]OPPRESSED_REPTILIANIntersex male | GNC | Don't call me "a gay", "twink" or "queen" 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Because this is (was?) a LGB sub, not a radical feminist sub. Radfems are not just anti-man but also anti-mentally ill and anti-intersex. As well as bordering as cultlike and psuedoscientific as TRAs.

[–]arc-en-ciel 13 insightful - 3 fun13 insightful - 2 fun14 insightful - 3 fun -  (2 children)

Uhh... But what about the women in GC who literally are mentally ill? Like, I have anxiety and have had thoughts of suicide before, which is literally mental illness, and luckily I've got help with it. I have family members with bipolar and OCD, and have supported a friend with an eating disorder. I'm very much for people getting help and therapy for mental illness, which doesn't conflict with my gender critical viewpoint. The only thing I'm not for is people rushing into surgery/hormone treatments for gender dysphoria without getting proper therapy first, for the mental health of the patient. With most mental health problems you should at least try to address the underlying issues first. The reason some people detransition is because they realise that instead of getting therapy for self esteem issues, depression, etc, that they were convinced that transition would solve their problems. To not get proper therapy before transition is unethical.

And what do you mean by anti-intersex? Most of the time the only times intersex is mentioned in GC is people saying they're tired of intersex people being used as pawns for TRAs. The only stance GC really tends to have on intersex people is that they generally have some combination of male and female sex attributes, and therefore aren't a third sex, more of a combination. That is scientifically sound unless you'd like to show me the third gamete humans can have.

I do think sometimes even r/gc could get into its own sort of echo chamber, but I don't think it's cultlike as TRAs. I've never seen someone on GC say "Oh, don't look at [trans sub]! That's a form of self harm!" to discourage people from reading any kind of opposing view. I've haven't seen GC rewriting Stonewall history, but trans subs will actively remove interviews with Marsha P Johnson that contradict their narrative. There's a reason that there were more GC that QT in the now banned debate subreddit, because GC was generally able to actually provide sources instead of just parroting whatever they'd heard in their subreddit.

Each side has their flaws but I would highly recommend you spend more time lurking on the s/gendercritical subsaidit if you actually want to know what it's about.

[–]OPPRESSED_REPTILIANIntersex male | GNC | Don't call me "a gay", "twink" or "queen" 5 insightful - 3 fun5 insightful - 2 fun6 insightful - 3 fun -  (1 child)

They get shit on by other GC people. I've seen it. And while anxiety and suicidal thoughts might be met with sympathy, other mental illnesses not so much. Specifically "cluster B personality disorders" (Diagnosises that are primarily given to women, might I add) which they accuse everyone they don't like (mostly TRAs) of having. Plus, I've seen a lot of "You're mentally ill/he's mentally ill, get help!" in response to someone doing something bad. GC tend to think that mental illness and bad person are generally the same thing.

GC are anti-intersex because, like TRAs, they speak for us instead of letting us have our own voices. They tell people what we are and aren't, and they get it wrong. They say that sex is defined solely by chromosomes for intersex people, which it isn't. They consider XX females (NOT TRANS. Rare disorder where an XX individual develops physically female) and XY males to be their "chromosomal" sex even though these people develop physically as the other sex, and will never "pass" for the sex GC thinks they are. GC also claims that there are no outliers and that people with ambigious genitalia and/or severe intersex disorders don't exist. They basically go around telling everyone that all intersex people are like me - that is, definitely male/female people with hormonal differences and "mild" conditions.

Plus I've existed as an intersex guy around GC and been accused of "TRYING TO MAKE WOMENS SPACES ABOUT INTERSEX PEOPLE!!111" when I literally just mentioned it. A lot of GC people seem to think that intersex people are the same as TRAs and are trying to "invade" them.

I've lurked on /r/gendercritical for years before it's deletion. I saw a lot of radfem circles on tumblr before my account got nuked. I'm not a newbie to gendercritical, I've been around them for years and I've progressively seen them get worse and worse.

[–]Jamiethiel2018 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I can't speak for anyone but me. Yes, I've seen some of what you describe and it is out of line. I won't make excuses for that. It's inexcusable. I much prefer the mom's chat as they are clear that people with DSDS have repeatedly asked not to be used in this debate. I hear you on that indeed. I mildly disagree on your point about mental illness. In all my reading, Radical Femenism does not, so far as I can tell, take the position as stated above. of course radfems are not a hive mind, and many take pains to distance themselves from people who are GC.

What do you think of adding to the rules that people with DSDs may not be used in this same manner? Perhaps we could direct people to MRKHvoice's blog? https://mrkhvoice.com/index.php/2019/08/12/what-is-intersex/