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[–]Markimus 2 insightful - 2 fun2 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 2 fun -  (23 children)

When are you going to trim off your remaining liberalism and become a fascist?

[–]wrongthink 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

Isn't the facist impulse to censor and ban all the things you don't like?

[–]Markimus 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

Every state censors and bans stuff that poses a threat to their power, it's no more fascist than it is liberal or communist. It's just what power does regardless of the state's supposed ideology. Also fascist* (fascio/fasces) not facist.

[–]wrongthink 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

The impulse to ban rather than argue against is inherently fascist in my opinion. America has all kinds of people whining about the American system and how we need to pay reparations and not be interventionist and take all the money from rich people and give it to poor people. This is all a threat to the main power mechanisms in America but the whining is permitted anyway.

If you had tried to undermine the Soviet Union with this kind of talk they would have you dissappeared. The Chinese government silences and dissappears such dissenters against the CCP all the time. Look at how people are "voluntarily" self censoring and self silencing in the wake of the "anti terrorism" law that the CCP just forced on Hong Kong.

There is a clear difference in how various governments around the world move against their internal critics. I say that the difference is determined by how fascist the underlying government is.

[–]AFutureConcern 4 insightful - 3 fun4 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

I think a fascist state would be far less censorious than the international mega-corporations today who decline payment services, ban books from their platforms, kick users off for simply mentioning the names of dissidents, retroactively delete videos that didn't violate terms of service but now do, and even deny dissidents the ability to register domains.

The association of fascism with censorship I think comes from a libertarian standpoint, from which all other forms of government look censorious and authoritarian. But actually, through a strong state, more freedom can be preserved, especially if that state is grounded in the truth, thereby not fearing its revelation. In contrast, a left-libertarian society leads most probably to our current situation with corporations as states-unto-themselves, based on deception (marketing) and therefore fearing the truth, preventing people from seeking it. (See Reddit's decision to shadowban users who post links to saidit.net, or to outright block links to thedonald.win; they are motivated to censor their competition in our left-liberal/libertarianish society).

[–]Markimus 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

The impulse to ban rather than argue against is inherently fascist in my opinion.

This isn't a matter of opinion, it's a matter of you just having no idea how power is actually working currently.

America has all kinds of people whining about the American system and how we need to pay reparations and not be interventionist and take all the money from rich people and give it to poor people. This is all a threat to the main power mechanisms in America but the whining is permitted anyway.

No it's not. These things are coming from CEOs, education institutes, celebrities, big tech etc. This stuff is coming from people with power, it's not a threat to power at all. The second a Black Lives Matter account made a single tweet about Israel's treatment of Palestinians on twitter they got cancelled. That's what happens when you actually say something about power.

If you had tried to undermine the Soviet Union with this kind of talk they would have you dissappeared. The Chinese government silences and dissappears such dissenters against the CCP all the time. Look at how people are "voluntarily" self censoring and self silencing in the wake of the "anti terrorism" law that the CCP just forced on Hong Kong.

See above, these are people in power that masquerade as subversives. If they were actually subversive they wouldn't be on every billboard, every tv show, every movie, on every song on the radio etc.

There is a clear difference in how various governments around the world move against their internal critics. I say that the difference is determined by how fascist the underlying government is.

There's none, you have just been fooled into thinking the system's propaganda is its 'internal criticism'. Actual dissenters to the regime in the west are deplatformed from social media, banks, doxed and fired, put in prison for being 'terrorists' despite committing no crimes, put in prison for defending themselves against the system's paramilitary (antifa) etc. The west doesn't kill dissidents (sometimes they do) but it does all this suppression, the reason we're on this site is because Reddit suppresses actual political dissent.

You're chasing imaginary fascists who literally have no power instead of the real life people who actually have power. They're capitalists and they're neoliberals. They ruthlessly suppress fascists because fascists are the people who oppose their power. Shit, they even ruthlessly suppress ordinary conservatives and class-focused leftists who aren't into all the woke stuff because they fear these people might become fascists. It's time the ordinary conservatives, the advocates of the working class and the fascist dissidents realise we have a lot more in common with each other than we do with these billionaires and millionaires, and there's hundreds of millions of us. There's probably only a few million people in the entirety of the US who believe in their bullshit, the problem is they've manipulated you into thinking your enemy is the other ordinary people who hate these fuckers who are exploiting and oppressing all of us.

[–]AFutureConcern 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Shit, they even ruthlessly suppress ordinary conservatives and class-focused leftists who aren't into all the woke stuff because they fear these people might become fascists.

https://thumbs.gfycat.com/MiserlyGlitteringHamster-size_restricted.gif

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

Wouldn't removing traces of liberalism make a person a moderate?

[–]Markimus 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Explain

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Moving from the left leads to middle.

[–]Markimus 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I said liberalism, not the democratic party. Both the GOP and Dems are liberals.

[–]bobbobbybob 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

nope. Liberal Socialist (the type that was dominant last century) has two evolutions. marxist socialist and fascist socialist.

[–][deleted]  (11 children)

[deleted]

    [–]Markimus 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

    I don't have any fascist beliefs.

    You're not anti-usury, speculation and rentseeking? You're not anti-capitalist and all forms of unproductive wealth?

    is a far-right ideology that's all about putting power in the hands of the few

    lol..? Fascists created the best state for the ordinary man to live under on the planet while it existed. There's nothing that even comes close to the achievements of the Volksgemeinschaft, German Labour Front, Strength Through Joy etc programs the Germans implemented.

    Leftist ideologies are about putting power in the hands of the many and liberating the masses.

    Also, liberalism is not leftist.

    You're literally describing Liberal/Anarchist ontology here then saying Liberalism isn't Leftist?

    I was referring to the relevant parts of liberalism as in individualism and class reductionism IE race doesn't matter! despite immigration and diversity explicitly being used by businesses to strike bust, drive down wages and break up worker solidarity. If you're not willing to abandon the liberal worldview you can never even come close to actually fighting class war.

    Your problem is with power/authority existing not class relations IE you're a LIBERAL, not a leftist. I thought you were a tankie or something not a radlib, my bad.

    [–]bobbobbybob 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (2 children)

    /pol/ was a powerful educator

    [–]Markimus 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

    What do you mean?

    [–]bobbobbybob 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    many people contributed to /pol/, and many political discussions were had. Truth and reality grew from that, and people this decade have a far deeper understanding of reality than they did last decade.

    but if you got there without /pol/, good on you

    [–]flugegeheimen 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

    lol..? Fascists created the best state for the ordinary man to live under on the planet while it existed. There's nothing that even comes close to the achievements of the Volksgemeinschaft, German Labour Front, Strength Through Joy etc programs the Germans implemented.

    Besides being incorrect, you don't really address his point of "Fascism ... is a far-right ideology that's all about putting power in the hands of the few" at all.

    [–]Markimus 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

    'Far right' means what? It's a meaningless term. 'Putting power in the hands of the few' describes literally every political system ever, there's nothing to be argued about.

    [–]flugegeheimen 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

    In cavemen style explanation:

    the left are for equality. Taken to the extreme it's communism where everyone is robbed and plunders are shared equally.

    the right are for inequality (some groups are inherently better than others). Taken to the extreme it's Nazism where "bad" groups are purged or enslaved (or both).

    These ideological camps are polar opposites even if their practical implementations often succumb to reality demands/common sense and do something they claim to be against (e.g. Lueger's "I determine who is a Jew").

    [–]Markimus 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    That's just your left and right. Others use it to mean economically, on the economic axis fascism is left wing. Some mean social conservatism vs progressivism, on this axis fascism is right wing. Some mean 'size of government' on this axis fascism is 'far left' and anarchism is 'far right'. Some mean inequality vs hierarchy like your example. These descriptions are utterly meaningless because everyone uses a different left/right and these terms are literally only used to characterise and demonise people in stupid ways instead of actually discussing ideas like adults.

    [–]bobbobbybob 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    Do you understand where fascism comes from? The bundle of sticks, people united and working together.

    It is used as a derogatory term now, but has deep roots in people movements. I'd say it was more populist than marxism, with the power granted to the state, rather than the state granting power to the people.

    [–]Chipit 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    Negative! Fascism grew directly out of socialism. It was all about empowering the working class, erasing class divisions in society, the professor is the same as a janitor, etc. See: http://www.la-articles.org.uk/fascism.htm

    [–]Chipit 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

    Negative! Fascism grew directly out of socialism. It was all about empowering the working class, erasing class divisions in society, the professor is the same as a janitor, etc. See: http://www.la-articles.org.uk/fascism.htm