Haunted by a 1984 quote and looking for perspectives from fellow women

submitted by Rationalmind from self.GenderCritical

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[–]lefterfield 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

I'm really not sure what Orwell means by this or if he would agree that being a bigotted party adherent is the same as being a spreader of sjw drama. If you're wondering if men are less prone to extremist behavior, absolutely not. Women back down more readily when challenged and are less likely to use force. But, all humans crave power. If women felt they had the power to report on people not following the party line, I can believe many of them would.

But so would many men. It's not true that women gossip more or participate in social drama more. We expect it more of women. When they conform to our expectations, it further confirms those expectations. When men behave the same way, it's often passed off as 'well, that one man is just like that.'

I mean...

Even looking back at email chains involving sjw drama, if I look at the participants in the drama, all but one was a woman (the one male participant was a gay man who goes by they/them). The target is also frequently a woman based on what I’ve seen.

This hasn't been my experience at all. Not to discount yours, but the worst adherents of sjw-ness and people who are LOOKING for drama to attack others over - they were men. Yes, some women as well, but the majority (and the worst) I knew were men. I couldn't tell you statistics overall, nor whether I'm personally more likely to befriend drama queen males. I will agree that the target was almost always female, though.

I'm inclined to think the quote represents a perception bias on Orwell's part. But, I don't know. The sort of behavior he observed could have been specifically encouraged in women of his time period.

[–]Rationalmind[S] 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

But, all humans crave power.

I personally am not interested in power. To be in power is a lot of responsibility and I don’t need any more responsibility lol. Responsibility is just more work and I have enough of that that I want more time for fun.

Lol maybe you do befriend a lot of male drama queens. Most of the men I hang around seem to be the exact opposite of drama, which is why I hang around with them.

Yea, I’m trying to figure out if that was a snapshot in time or whether this statement continues to hold.

Right, we can’t know if Orwell would agree being an SJW is the same as being a bigoted adherent to the party. At this point, I tend to think they are similar. For example, I have noticed women have adopted pronouns at a higher rate than men. In Twitter bios, women seem more eager to put she/her. I tend to think this is because women are socialized to care and maybe this leads to blind support or something. Those of us who are GC probably don’t do this because we’ve been through it.

Have you participated in church or religion? If so, do people stick out as the “truest” believers?

[–]lefterfield 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I personally am not interested in power. To be in power is a lot of responsibility and I don’t need any more responsibility lol. Responsibility is just more work and I have enough of that that I want more time for fun.

Generally speaking, human nature is to want power. That doesn't mean everyone wants to conquer the world. Thinking about it on a small scale, people do want to feel they have control over their own lives.

In Twitter bios, women seem more eager to put she/her. I tend to think this is because women are socialized to care and maybe this leads to blind support or something.

I don't think this is evidence of women being true believers. Women are more likely, it seems, to be the targets of social harassment, from both men and women. If putting pronouns in one's bio can avoid a confrontation, many of them are likely to go along with it. But "blind supporters" - I don't think you can be certain there's more women than men that are. Seems to me more men than women benefit from genderism, especially at the top levels of the gender cult. (Doctors, endocrinologists, supporters of trans humanism, etc) Men may go about their support differently, but the ones that do are quite blind in it.

Have you participated in church or religion? If so, do people stick out as the “truest” believers?

More women than men tend to be faithful adherents of any religion. The same is true with respect to poorer vs wealthier people, and I think the basis for both is the same. Women are more likely to be poor, more likely to have no power over their own lives, more likely to feel they need help from a higher power. You should question why, despite these 'likelihoods', more men are in positions of religious authority. You seem to focus a lot on women's ideological devotion while ignoring men's.

[–]Nosce_te_ipsum 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

More women than men tend to be faithful adherents of any religion. The same is true with respect to poorer vs wealthier people, and I think the basis for both is the same. Women are more likely to be poor, more likely to have no power over their own lives, more likely to feel they need help from a higher power. You should question why, despite these 'likelihoods', more men are in positions of religious authority. You seem to focus a lot on women's ideological devotion while ignoring men's.

This is a very good point that I think gets overlooked very often. I suspect a lot of people don't think that men in positions of religious authority actually believe that much in what they preach. It might be true, or it might be heavily influenced by the popular idea that men are more rational and, thus, wouldn't fall for something as silly as magical thinking. I've hinted at this in my other comment too, but whether it's crazy ideologies or religion, it's usually men who create and run them. And you can argue they're just taking advantage of the masses, but who's to say they don't, at least partially, believe in what they spew. And when men become zealots, things go south real fast. As another commenter said, you don't see many women beheading people, blowing up buildings or hijacking airplanes.