Women conditioned to "lie down and take it"

submitted by AdmiralPangolin from (self.GenderCritical)

I apologize if this is lengthy, I had to get it out somewhere.

What prompted this rant, well my uncle died almost a year ago. I am still torn over his death and I miss him every day and I just wish I could hug him at least one more time. He is survived by my aunt, who is 68 years old at this time. I visited her today and she told me she misses him and that she still can't get over the fact that he's gone. I feel for her, I honestly do, I reckon most of my family members still can't get over the fact that he's gone. As a niece, I can say that he was the best uncle I've ever had, I have the fondest of memories with him, we all think of him in this way. However there is something my aunt said which made me think how poorly women of her generation were conditioned regarding men and their "ultimate need". I'll try to convey you the words exactly as she said them "I miss him so much... don't get me wrong I don't miss the sex... honestly ever since I lost our child (this was back in 1980) I haven't even had the urge to have sex... but you know how men are... they have their needs and one must comply... you know even when he brushed his hand on my shoulder during that... I shivered... I hated it but I still went with it". This left me with my mouth agape... I couldn't even construct a normal sentence because I was shocked at what I was hearing. I am a lesbian, I never had anything to do with men, ever, and while I am aware that rape exists in lesbian relationships, I've never experienced something like that myself, every sexual encounter I've had over the years was pleasurable and most importantly consensual. To hear those words coming out of her mouth, left me shocked... It left me with the notion that she (of course) isn't the only one of her generation to neglect her own need and put a stop to the abuse which was (and in some places still is) masked as "marital duty". As much as I miss him today, I can't help but feel sorry for her and everything she had to endure over the years while being quiet about it and thinking that it is something "a wife must provide".

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[–]MarkTwainiac 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

OP, I am very sorry about your loss. And I am very sorry for the situation of your aunt in her marriage as you describe it.

But as a woman close to your aunt's age, I ask that you not assume that her reaction to the conditioning that girls and women of her and my generation received was the only reaction - or even the most typical one.

Yes, many/most of us were taught to "lie back and take it" when we were growing up. But huge numbers of girls and women responded to this kind of conditioning by questioning it. In droves we said, no way, and stood up and objected and protested. We didn't just lie back and take it - figuratively or literally.

Women of your aunt's and my generation are the ones who got rape laws changed so that the victim's sexual history could no longer be brought in. We got "acquaintance rape" recognized in the law. We got "marital rape" accepted as concept and made illegal in countries like the US and UK.

Women of preceding generations got abortion and access to contraception made legal, and pioneered sex education.

Girls and women of your aunt's generation fought for women's liberation and gay and lesbian rights. Lots went braless and sowed our wild oats - and many of us, even the heterosexual ones, had a very good time sexually and in many other ways.

In the 1960s, 70s and 80s, there actually was a great deal of emphasis in the Anglophone world on heterosex being mutually rewarding, enjoyable for both sexes. One of the biggest bestsellers of all time from that era was "The Joy of Sex," which did not take the view your aunt has revealed to you.

Another huge bestseller in the 70s was "The Hite Report."

I remember being a girl of about 11 in the mid-1960s reading with my sisters the "marital guides" given to our mother and grandmothers. We thought the advice and attitudes therein were ridiculous, as did our mother. So did most of the people we grew up with. And we went to RC convent school!

There were a lot of heterosexual men back then who only cared about their own sexual pleasure and for whom sex meant PIV "wham bang thank you ma'am." But there were - and are - also many men of your aunt's and my generation, as well as men from older and younger generations, who cared very much about pleasing their female partners sexually. Lots of men prided themselves on being adept at getting girls and women off, whether using their hands or their mouths.

I am sorry for your aunt's experience and unhappiness. But please don't use her experience to extrapolate to an entire generation of women.

Again, my condolences to you and your aunt for the loss of your uncle and her husband.

[–]powpowpowpow 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

This is a trend even today and I'm talking from experience... I'm 19 yo and my mom always told me to just "take it" and if I told "no" to sex to a bf he would go after another woman that wouldnt deny him sex and cheat. It sucks and hinders my hability to impose myself in some situations and I'm lucky I found a guy that doesnt exploit that and has been helping me to impose myself more, but it is hard af even tho I know its a really disgusting logic, I still get insecure and it doesn't help that my mom continues to reinforce this notion even nowadays... I'm sorry for your loss and for what your aunt went thru... I hope she heals

[–]VioletRemi 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

The worst part in it is victim blaming, they making you feel like it is your fault, that men can't hold their penis in pants, so if you don't give to husband sex on demand - they will get sex somewhere else, and it is your fault, not theirs.

And similar is in religions as well. Like in most modern interpretations of islam, woman showing her body can make men horny, being horny is a sin, and it is women's sin that she made man horny, not his sin that he can't control himself. And women are punished for this by stoning or whips. It is so idiotic and victim blaming elevated to absolute.

[–]powpowpowpow 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Exactly, that's the really frustrating part that puts women down a LOT.

My ex boyfriend actually didn't care that I said no once and kept pushing it, and back then I still heard my mom more and was afraid of holding my ground and let him... it was horrible and not much later I broke the relationship off, its just awful and I hate I cant find support from my mom about this subject

[–]MarkTwainiac 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

It is terrible you can't get support from your mom about this. A lot of moms are pretty awful about a lot of topics, and undermine their children's autonomy and damage them in many ways. Not because the moms are bad people or don't mean well, but because of the way they were brought up and they don't have the ability to see beyond or break out the limiting, harmful beliefs they themselves were raised to accept as the truth.

But the good thing is, you're only 19 and you can see that your mom's views are in the wrong here, and you've already been able to form - and act on - your own beliefs that are quite different to hers. That's a credit to you. A big credit to you. Brava!

Still, it does hurt to know that many of our mothers can't/couldn't be relied on to provide support and meet our needs.

[–]powpowpowpow 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Thank you! It is better that way so I can break the cycle, which is hard when it comes to abusive views or ways ://