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[–]GConly 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

I've read that 65% of the calories in most hunter-gatherer societies were provided by women

I think you're probably remembering the 68 work by Lee. Which is kind of problematic for that kind of statement because he only used groups from the tropics.

Once you get above a certain latitude males provide most of the calories and meat is the main calorie source, unlike the groups Lee looked at.

As for the game animals eaten, that also varied very much by locale. The European HGs mostly ate big game.

I also had issues with the OP paper too long to go into.

[–]MarkTwainiac 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

No, it's not the work by Lee that I got that from. It was from more recent work that was global in perspective. I'll have to go look, but it was years ago.

As for the game animals eaten, that also varied very much by locale. The European HGs mostly ate big game.

Yes, I know the kinds of animals eaten did indeed vary very much by locale, as they still do today. People in some countries eat scorpions, rats, bats, horses, cats, dogs, snails, snakes, lizards; people in other places don't. In Japan, raw fish and seaweed are common/daily fare. In other countries, not so much - or at all.

Sorry, I find it hard to believe that European HGs (or HGs anywhere else) mostly ate big game, and that big game was the main calorie source. There is a huge tradition in many countries in Europe such as France, Spain, Greece and Croatia of eating wild animals - and foraging, trapping and hunting them - like rabbits, wild boar, all sorts of small birds and various wild fowl, snails, frogs and all sorts of fresh and saltwater fish and crustaceans like minnows, mussels and crabs. Europeans also have longstanding traditions of foraging for non-animal foods.

But whatever Europeans did, the fact is that Europe is not indicative of the rest of the world. Asia, Africa and the Americas are larger than Europe in land mass and population.

Regardless of locale, relying solely on big game for the main source of calories would not only be incredibly inefficient, but it would be hard for the average tribe to butcher and consume and digest an entire big-game animal before the meat went bad. Prior to the era of curing/salting meat preservation, the chance of becoming incredibly sick or dying of food poisoning from meat gone bad would have been high. Flies and maggots are pretty quick to set upon a rotting animal carcass; same goes for buzzards and other vultures.

Also, anyone who's spent any time outdoors in the wild knows that the natural world is full of tiny, small and medium-sized critters, some of which are fairly easy for humans to catch, trap or fish or whose nests, burrows, breeding grounds and homes are easy for sharp-eyed humans to find, stake out and raid. It makes no logical sense to think that HG societies in all of Europe - or anywhere else - would routinely pass up all the opportunities to catch and eat the vast majority of creatures smaller than them within their reach and instead concentrate solely on hunting and eating big-game many times their own size.

HG people weren't stupid at all - so why would they not make use of their main advantages over a huge array of other animals - their human size, senses and smarts - and choose instead to only go after big-game animals who were vastly larger and faster, and could crush humans under their hooves?

The kinds of animals eaten around the world, many of which come from practices and customs that predate agriculture and animal domestication, are incredibly diverse. Yes, sometimes big game is eaten. But most of the land animals and fish eaten everywhere on earth are of small or medium size. For every tribe/people that focused on the likes of antelope, whales, bison/buffalo, there had to be dozens more that relied on insects and small or medium game and fish for animal calories.

Of course, latitude matters. People in tropical climates have different options than people who live in places with falls and winters. But in cold climates, a lot of animals are actually easier to stake out and catch in the fall and winter months. Once the weather turns cold, many rodents and insects look for warmer places - such as indoors or near fires. And other animals burrow in and hibernate.

It doesn't make sense that humans in cold climates would pass up the opportunity to eat all the critters coming into their tents or caves once the weather chilled coz of their supposed allegiance only to big game. It doesn't make sense that humans would ignore the chance to raid the nests or burrows of all the animals lying low for the winter.

It's been proven time and again that starving, hungry people even in the modern world will eat virtually anything - leather shoes, cockroaches, the flesh of other humans - to survive. So it seems preposterous to say that HGs would turn up their noses at all other animal food sources coz of their supposed allegiance to only eating big game.

I'm from North America, the US specifically. Big-game clearly wasn't the main source of animal meat calories by the Native Americans on the east coast that were first colonized by Europeans. Otherwise, the centerpiece of Thanksgiving wouldn't be turkey - it would be moose, elk or venison from other deer, or perhaps coyote or wolf. And there'd be no oyster stuffing, a New England seashore Thanksgiving classic.

The idea of the primacy of the male big-game hunter wielding a phallic spear is male-supremacist. My hunch is, a lot more critters and calories were captured by use of traps and nets devised, engineered and woven by women.

[–]GConly 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

but it would be hard for the average tribe to butcher and consume and digest an entire big-game animal before the meat went bad.

I don't think that's correct. And they typically don't eat it all anyway. They hack off the fatty parts, eat some on site and carry a lot back. It isn't one person's family eating the bigger animal, it's shared out to the group on the understanding the favour is returned. Big game hunting is done in groups, not as an individual.

This leaving butchered large meat behaviour may well be behind the process of domestication in dogs, as we left a fair bit of meat to be scavenged.

It's also fairly common to dry meat for storage in HGs in summer, and in winter the cold extends usability.

I think you are overlooking the seasonality issue with food sources too. Get into winter and most of the smaller game will have hidden or flown away or will be so starved hunting it would provide fewer calories than you'd expend getting it. In temperate areas plant foods will be almost nil from late autumn onwards.

If this discussion is about the role of females in procuring hunted foods, there's one major issue that isn't being looked into. Personal safety.

Female HGs forage in groups, or they don't wander far from each other for a couple of good reasons.

First: Safety.

Bigger predators are more likely to take women and children than adult men. A female hunter is at a higher risk of death.

There's also the risk of your neighbouring HGs carrying you off or raping you, or both. A common occurrence in HG groups, where interpersonal violence is at a level much higher than we are used to. If female hunting was normal you'd have your neighbors lurking around the outskirts to trail them then take them.

This is the main reason female HGs forage in groups, or stay close to camp.

Second: assuming hunting is done with a bow, I doubt the smaller short bows females would have the strength to penetrate that deep into a larger animal. These wouldn't be like modern complex longbows. The force they produce on impact is lower.

Then there's the practicality of bow hunting in a group. A safe sized bunch of women stomping through the landscape are going to scare off most game. You'd probably have a decent chance at shooting something the others flushed out, but you won't be sneaking up on anything.

Then there's the mechanics of being pregnant, nursing or caring for a small child. IIRC female HGs tend to space pregnancies out every three years or so. This means for most of their adult life they'll be pregnant or breastfeeding a babe in arms. Not hunting during this time.