Doctor who chops off TiFs’ breasts calls herself “Tit Wizard” - where is the outrage?

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[–]amandalix 14 insightful - 1 fun14 insightful - 0 fun15 insightful - 1 fun -  (12 children)

Mutilating females like that should be illegal.

[–]AppleTapple 1 insightful - 5 fun1 insightful - 4 fun2 insightful - 5 fun -  (11 children)

It's not mutilation.

[–]BEB[S] 20 insightful - 1 fun20 insightful - 0 fun21 insightful - 1 fun -  (10 children)

What would you call chopping off healthy flesh for a young person suffering from a psychological condition?

It's now been proven over and over that "trans" kids are almost always either "gender non-conforming'" (with most being gay) or have other issues: autism, ADHD, depression, anxiety, have experienced physical or sexual abuse.

I worked with anorexics when I was young. We didn't tell them to lose weight or offer them liposuction. We tried to heal their minds.

This non stop propaganda being pushed on us by the nefarious forces behind Trans, Inc., - that we can take hormones, or drugs and undergo plastic surgery to achieve happiness, doesn't benefit humans, it benefits the Medical Industrial Complex/ Big Pharma.

Humans are benefited by loving and accepting ourselves as we are and telling the rest of the world to fuck off if it tries to bring us down, that is the path to true happiness.

[–]AppleTapple 1 insightful - 4 fun1 insightful - 3 fun2 insightful - 4 fun -  (9 children)

It's not just "chopping of healthy flesh." It's a professional surgical reconstruction of the male chest, and it's been proven to benefit the lives of transmen. Trans kids aren't the ones receiving this surgery, it is near impossible for them to even be able to get as far as a consultation with a surgeon. Telling someone with anorexia to get liposuction or that they are right about their deluded feelings is a false equivalency in comparison to a transman getting top surgery. It's really hard to get a referral for top surgery, it takes at least 6 months of gender therapy first, and the waiting lists are unbearably long. The difference is that trans people aren't suffering from a delusion, it's just not the same as encouraging self-harm or affirming someone's belief that they are a unicorn. Most transgender children do grow out of gender dysphoria, you're right about that. But trans people who have persistent gender dysphoria after puberty are most definitely not going to be growing out of it. The only best treatment option for the majority of trans people is social and medical transition. It significantly improves their lives. We've been told that transition isn't going to be a miracle cure and solve all of our problems, and the majority of therapists tell that to us outright. However, the good outweighs the bad. Forcing a trans person to just "accept" their bodies when they clearly show signs of permanent gender dysphoria is the same as conversion therapy. But it really should be a last resort to transition, because it is a difficult path and it's important to be making the right decisions.

[–]MarkTwainiac 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

It's not just "chopping of healthy flesh." It's a professional surgical reconstruction of the male chest, and it's been proven to benefit the lives of transmen.

You must live in Bizarro World if you think removing the breasts of female persons is the "reconstruction of the male chest." What a preposterous claim.

It's really hard to get a referral for top surgery, it takes at least 6 months of gender therapy first, and the waiting lists are unbearably long.

Maybe in your country. But not in many or even most. In the US and Canada, girls as young as 13 are being given double mastectomies for supposed "gender dysphoria" on demand. This is being celebrated by surgeons and transgenderists alike, yet many girls and young women who earlier were sure these surgeries were absolutely right for them later came to regret it:

https://thepostmillennial.com/young-canadians-are-being-sold-gender-affirming-top-surgery-on-instagram

https://www.thestranger.com/features/2017/06/28/25252342/the-detransitioners-they-were-transgender-until-they-werent

https://youtu.be/1irbgttUJ9U

https://youtu.be/i0EFPv1_jdI

Until recently, teen girls in Sweden and in a number of other European countries such as the Netherlands and Belgium were being offered and given double mastectomies without any "unbearably long" waiting periods or exploration of the girls' motivations and underlying issues.

https://youtu.be/sJGAoNbHYzk https://youtu.be/73-mLwWIgwU

https://youtu.be/OSxJduqZxcg https://youtu.be/sllJpY9k29g

Offering double mastectomies to confused, vulnerable teen girls and young on demand is now a worldwide trend:

https://www.topsurgery.net/surgeons/

In the US, it's actually quite easy to get these surgeries. Hundreds of US surgeons are offering their services for a fee - which is often covered by health insurance - on sites such as this:

https://www.transhealthcare.org/top-surgery/

Even in the UK, where there are indeed long waiting lists to be seen at gender clinics in the first place, and then to be referred on to endocrinologists and surgeons, girls are still getting their breasts cut off and being given medications such as puberty blockers and cross-sex hormones that will have lifelong implications:

https://metro.co.uk/2020/10/06/woman-suing-gender-clinic-after-regretting-her-decision-to-transition-to-man-13379005/

https://unherd.com/2019/12/the-nhs-is-failing-trans-kids/

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-7738323/Woman-regrets-transitioning-says-considered-CUTTING-breasts-pair-scissors.html

Also, surgeons are removing the uteruses and ovaries a lot of young women on account of their supposed "gender dysphoria":

https://youtu.be/lsHjkcHfH1M

Most transgender children do grow out of gender dysphoria, you're right about that. But trans people who have persistent gender dysphoria after puberty are most definitely not going to be growing out of it.

The sweeping statements you are making here are based on a subset of young people with "gender dysphoria," namely those who developed GD in childhood and persist after puberty. These people are are and were almost exclusively male!

Over the past couple of decades, the majority of young people presenting with "gender dysphoria" have switched from being of the male sex to being of the female sex. What's more, the vast majority of young female people with GD in their teens and 20s did not have GD in childhood; they developed it only during or after puberty.

Lessons gleaned from males with childhood GD in the past are in no way applicable to the large numbers of females today who are developing GD in/after puberty!

https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2017/feb/03/experience-i-regret-transitioning

https://www.bbc.com/news/health-50548473

[–]BiologyIsReal 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Most trans identified kids outgrew their gender dysphoria before "affirmative therapy" (i.e. doctors are not allowed to question their gender identity or were it came from) and "puberty blockers" became the norm. These "puberty blockers" are said to be a reversible and safe (a BIG lie) pause button that give the kids time to think. However, virtually all those who take these drugs end progressing to cross sex hormones. What it is more, several detransitioners have speak up about how they were rushed through transition despite their young age or the presence of trauma or other psycological problems. Also, yes, minors are getting double mastectomies, too.

The comparison of gender dysphoria with anorexia is very good, actually. Both case involves a belief in something that is not real and an dissatisfaction with the body. Moreover, I don't know about any other mental health issue that is treated the same way gender dysphoria is (i.e. enabling the mental illness).

[–]purrfect 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

It's not reconstruction, because she didn't have a male chest in the first place.

Where has it been proven to improve dysphoric women's lives? Where are all the clinical studies? I'm not saying it doesn't work, but where are the scientific studies stating percentages of short, mid and long term success, percentages of desisters/detransitioners and how that practice compares to any other surgery (for medical reasons) Vs. placebo.

Any surgery on the body, when the problem is psychological is dodgy at best and should be scrutinized thoroughly.

[–][deleted] 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

But trans people who have persistent gender dysphoria after puberty are most definitely not going to be growing out of it.

Most people who have mental illnesses that emerge during or after puberty (ADHD, depression, bipolar disorder, schizophrenia, etc) don't grow out of it either. But we don't treat them by telling them to lean into their manic episodes, hallucinations, and suicidal thoughts. We treat them with therapy and medications. And no, HRT is not a medication the same way antidepressants, antipsychotics, and stimulants are. HRT is more akin to giving someone with hallucinations LSD to intensify those visions and their detachment from reality.

Telling someone with anorexia to get liposuction or that they are right about their deluded feelings is a false equivalency in comparison to a transman getting top surgery.

How? Because gender dysphoria is the ONLY area where patients are told to embrace a view of themselves that's inconsistent with reality. You keep insisting that it's not the same and that trans people aren't suffering from a delusion but you don't explain how. Just how exactly are trans people different in this regard? Because from where most people are standing it seems like many of them are simply suffering from internalized homophobia, internalized misogyny, suffering from some other mental illness, or are chasing a yaoi/lesbian fetish. You can't just say 'it's not the same' with nothing to back that up. Gender dysphoria is seen as a mental illness that's 'treated' with hormones and surgery. It's the only mental illness where the patient's body is altered instead of the mind. There are people who think their perfectly healthy limbs shouldn't be there, but we don't hack them off to make them happy. How is a girl who thinks she's a boy and therefore thinks her boobs are foreign objects any different?

[–]BEB[S] 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Excellent post. Is it OK if I use part of your post when others make the same argument?

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Sure! It would make me happy to see more people poking holes in this "logic" because I'm really tired of seeing it. TRAs will say 'it's not the same' but won't bother to delve into why. They'll say HRT is 'medication to treat dysphoria like antipsychotics treat schizophrenia' when that's not even remotely true. Antipsychotics tone down hallucinations and voices. A doctor won't sit there and say 'oh you're hearing voices? you should listen to them. here's a drug to help you keep having those experiences. maybe the voices will get even louder! you brain is gonna be a party when you start seeing twice as much trippy shit!'. But a gender clinic absolutely WILL say 'oh you're dysphoric and think you should be a boy? you think you should've been born without breasts? here's testosterone to help intensify that belief. and put you on a waiting list for a double mastectomy while we're at it. you're gonna look sooo manly after a few years on T!' A true medication to treat dysphoria would help a patient be more comfortable in their body without trying to change it beyond recognition.

It's infuriating. There is nothing 'false' about that comparison. A true false equivalency would be 'being trans is exactly like being gay or black'. No, it really isn't. The only overlap is that many gay people also experience dysphoria, and many black people often wish we could identify out of oppression. That overlap doesn't make those situations identical. Being unhappy because you think you shouldn't be a girl is not the same as being unhappy because people around you tell you it's wrong for you to like girls, or being racist because of your skin color. One is denying reality altogether - "I'm not a girl", the other is being upset at other people's response to reality "I hate how people make me feel for being a girl/lesbian/black/etc."

Edit: I also wanted to add that just because something makes someone feel better doesn't mean it was the right thing to do. Just because top surgery may improve the lives of some trans men doesn't mean it's a practice that needs to continue. Crack makes people feel better. Abusing women makes some shitty men feel better. Binge drinking makes people feel better. We don't encourage those behaviors though because they are, on average, harmful and unnecessary.

Also, no one can really say that with confidence because detransition rates are largely unknown. Any study that attempts to gather legitimate data on detransitioners gets either stopped before it can begin, or never gets published anywhere people can find the data easily. Add to that how trans suicide rates don't really go down much following surgery, and that argument has never held water either. I wrote a ton and I really didn't intend to, but I have a lot of feelings about this.

[–]BEB[S] 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

You wrote a lot of wisdom, thank you!

I always make the point that women and minority men (in the US) can't identify out of our oppression, whereas all TiMs have to do is change their appearance and their oppression vanishes.

[–]redditbegay 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

A doctor won't sit there and say 'oh you're hearing voices? you should listen to them.

This was a great gem in an excellent post!

Edit: I also wanted to add that just because something makes someone feel better doesn't mean it was the right thing to do. Just because top surgery may improve the lives of some trans men doesn't mean it's a practice that needs to continue. Crack makes people feel better. Abusing women makes some shitty men feel better. Binge drinking makes people feel better. We don't encourage those behaviors though because they are, on average, harmful and unnecessary.

Changing genders based on what a TEENAGER feels should not be medically sanctioned. There is no current disease that is treated by TRANSITIONING teenagers. Period.

[–]BEB[S] 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

You sound as if you're considering transition; I don't know how to put this any other way but please don't.

Please, please, please check out the Detransition Advocacy Network to see how other women came to deeply regret their transition, often too late to regain their female bodies.

https://www.detransadv.com/

I'm guessing that even the "older" women you mention who want to transition, are still young enough to have grown up in the post-Queer Theory, liberal feminism culture of violent porn, sexting, plastic surgery on demand, anal sex, hook up culture, BDSM - and they want none of it.

What better way out of having to deal with the absolute shit women have to deal with than to become a man?

But putting yourself through medical horrors, at the end of which you might in clothing, pass as a man to someone with bad vision and no sense of smell, will never change that you are a woman, and rather than rejecting that immutable fact, why not try to work with the rest of us women to regain a societal respect for women?

Why not work with other women to push back on Queer Theory and liberal feminism and misogyny from both the Right and the Left?

Extreme body modification as a result of not being able to cope with modern womanhood (and I don't blame you for that) is not the answer.

Accepting yourself, and the body that houses you, reaching out to other women, working with them to fight for respect and rights for women, will help you find happiness a thousand times more than undergoing dangerous, traumatic surgery to make yourself a facsimile of a man.

And I went to school with a bunch of bold, fierce dykes, who were proud of being women. All of us women were well aware that men had it much better, and if we could have switched to being men, many of us would have, myself included, but we aren't men, we are women, so be proud, be strong and revel in your power while you fight to make things better for every woman.

But again, please check out the stories of other women who realized, sometimes too late, that they'd made a terrible decision to transition.

The Detransition Advocacy Network is global and nonprofit with local chapters.

https://www.detransadv.com/

Also r/detrans used to be full of heartbreaking stories of young people who deeply regretted their transition. It's apparently been taken over by trans activists, but check it out anyway to see if there are other women you can connect too who can tell you about their decision to transition and then de-transition.

Take it from an oldie: your body is the only one you have. Your looks are going to fail you with age, no matter what you do, so concentrate on your soul rather than chasing the dragon with trying to endlessly "fix" your outside.

Good luck!

[–]alisia 7 insightful - 2 fun7 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

Wow that's awful.

A lot of FtM individuals become incel/MRA

https://vintologi.com/threads/the-vintologi-theory-of-transexualism.566/#post-3412

[–]Eurowoman24 6 insightful - 3 fun6 insightful - 2 fun7 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

god like we needed more of those.

[–]Daraincork 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

She could be helping people who are genuinely sick. Sounds like an old sawbones from the middle ages , making easy money. Disgraceful.

[–]AppleTapple 2 insightful - 4 fun2 insightful - 3 fun3 insightful - 4 fun -  (0 children)

Being a surgeon isn't making easy money. That argument is pointless, everyone could be helping the sick.

[–]redditbegay 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Doctor who chops off TiFs’ breasts calls herself “Tit Wizard”

I was surprised to find out this wasn't related to the newest season of 'Doctor Who'. Had the current showrunner written it, I doubt anyone in the fandom would have been surprised.

'Join Jodie as she finds out that being a Woman is more toxic than it seems!" Coming later this week, on BBC 3!