My TRA friend: "JK Rowling's speech is on the same spectrum as the murder of Transwomen"

submitted by Vari4 from (self.GenderCritical)

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[–]eddyelric 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (9 children)

Lol, TRAs have much in common with their Muslim brethren...

[–]BEB 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (8 children)

I've worked with really nice Muslim men, so please don't generalize. Like Judaism and Christianity , there are different degrees of religious adherence and different levels of misogyny.

[–]eddyelric 13 insightful - 1 fun13 insightful - 0 fun14 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

I grew up in a Muslim family , in a Muslim neighbourhood. I know what I'm talking about. A lot of men get away with sexism because people are too afraid of appearing "Islamophobic" and it's the women (like me) who suffer. So I'll say whatever about Muslim men, liberals will defend them anyway.

[–]BEB 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

With all due respect, and I do respect your experiences very much and value your point of view, my experiences with Muslims come from work, but also traveling quite a bit (for an American). There were countries where Muslims were more like lapsed Catholics in the US - the dogma has kind of missed them, and then there were countries where Islam is the be all and end all of life.

And it is true that formerly moderate Muslim countries like Indonesia are becoming more radicalized in some places.

But, I have worked closely with some wonderful Muslim men who were more respectful of me, my opinion and my work than some of the militantly - secular Woke bros running around the US screaming TWAW and Death to TERFs, as they destroy women's lives and careers for being actual feminists.

Also, my politics are kind of cafeteria style, so "Progressive" on some things, not-so on others, and I wouldn't defend radical anything in terms of religion. I just think that categorizing every single person who belongs to a religious group as an extremist is unfair and can lead to dangerous misunderstandings.

For instance, US soldiers were trained to think of Iraqis as "hajis" so that they would feel less guilt about killing them. But many Iraqis are moderate or close to secular Muslims or are not Muslim at all.

So yeah, I like to treat people as individuals and go from there. And it has served me well as I have friends of many ethnicities and across the political and religious spectrums.

[–]our_team_is_winning 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

It sounds like you encountered people who were born into it but did not choose it. Many people will be kind to you, especially as a non-Muslim, on the surface. If you ever got into a big issue in the family, like who the daughter wanted to date, some of them would shock you. An issue that pains me is that many "Muslims" are actually atheists, but they dare not ever say so, not in Muslim countries anyway. They have to wear that label "Muslim" just for being born and trying to drop it is not an option. BUT at the end of the day, religious or not, men still stick to men's ideas about women, don't they!

[–]BEB 4 insightful - 2 fun4 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 2 fun -  (2 children)

I spent quite a bit of time in countries with large Muslim populations, or countries that are predominantly Muslim. Their religious freedoms really seemed to depend upon the country, because the countries I spent time in weren't strict, as in, you could be an apostate and no one would care. I was mostly in cities though, so maybe in the countryside people felt more pressure to conform.

[–]our_team_is_winning 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Cool about your travels. I stopped all travel 20 years ago. (No naked scanner or TSA for me!) All of my Muslim friends are through work, mostly from the Gulf. I've had a lot of invitations to Kuwait, but won't go because of animal cruelty (we have enough here, I don't need to see more). Glad to hear SOME places are less strict. I was once invited to Saudi Arabia (hell no!) but I couldn't go even if I'd wanted to because I was under 45 and single at the time, and they did not allow women like that in. I've heard from two Turkish friends (who now live here) that Turkey used to be almost Western, and it's now slipping deep into Islamic rule. I fear for the women there.

[–]BEB 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

A lot of countries are becoming more Islamist, Indonesia and Turkey are two, and it's really frightening. I'm not on board with any religion being mixed with government. Radical anything scares me.

[–]our_team_is_winning 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Sorry a bit off-topic maybe: It's not about the individual people born into it; it's the ideology itself. Too often the Woke conflate critcism of the ideology and the people who were born into it (never with Christians though, notice!), and we have to be careful not to fall into that trap. I've had way too many people call me "racist" for pointing out the evils of Islam. Many Muslim people are nice, but when push comes to shove, watch out. I speak from experience. For the devout, their ideology does not budge and they will turn on you. All three major Semitic religions are scary cults to me.

[–]catoboros 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Yes, muslims are just people, with as wide a range of personalities and opinions as any other faith. The vast majority are born into religion and many follow their religion out of habit and familiarity.