Found you thanks to TRAs

submitted by odateya from (self.GenderCritical)

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[–]Barber_Acrobatic 45 insightful - 2 fun45 insightful - 1 fun46 insightful - 2 fun -  (25 children)

From an outsiders perspective it does seem as if the black community has done a much better job at not buying into this sort of thing. Prime example being the (rightful) shutting down of Rachel Dozeal.

I'd be interested to know your thoughts in why you think this is? From my perspective I'd wager a lot of it has to do with a white sensitivity on being on 'the wrong side of history' again and so passivity and open acceptance has overwhelmed all sense of reason.

That said, while it may have originally come from a good place (I'm personally doubtful of this but open to other perspectives) its deeply concerning to see how this over correction is ruling out all sensible and nuanced and instead reducing us to having to have frankly ridiculous arguments over whether a man with a beard and a week of oestrogen under his belt is somehow magically a woman.

[–]AngryRadish 44 insightful - 2 fun44 insightful - 1 fun45 insightful - 2 fun -  (7 children)

Interesting take. Those who are transgender and their supporters do seem to be overwhelmingly white. There's something about the self righteous culture going on in the West, it's a social currency to be righteous. I can't wait for people to get fed up with it.

[–]Complicated-Spirit 35 insightful - 2 fun35 insightful - 1 fun36 insightful - 2 fun -  (2 children)

They're already starting. More than once I've witnessed a white person self-righteously lecture a POC on how whatever that POC is saying is "racist" against POC, for obviously no other reason than virtue-signaling. I really believe the vast majority of unabashed, lip-service "support" for TRAs from white activists is the same thing.

[–]Barber_Acrobatic 21 insightful - 2 fun21 insightful - 1 fun22 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

It almost gets to a level where it's motion activated. Where certain cues are hit and out come the stock phrases. I used to be the same, happily trotting out lines and ignoring any internal voice that squirmed against it.

I think weirdly one of the things that helped break me out of the cycle was seeing a video of someone doing the exact same thing about JK back in Nov last year. It was watching a switch flick and suddenly there were all the stock phrases.

There are incredible societal pressures against stepping outside of the purity culture at the moment, anything that deviates from the accepted group think is shut down as people worry about being 'guilty' by association.

*Edited to mention that the 'social currency to be righteous' is such a good way of putting it.

[–]Yamyam 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

It's the cancel culture, white guilt, and virtue signalling all rolled into one that made this problem.

[–]sallyseton 21 insightful - 2 fun21 insightful - 1 fun22 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

Yes, like the white left's embrace of the trans movement as an over-correction for homophobia and racism.

[–]DeepseaDemon 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Hilarious (/s) that it came back full circle to homophobia though.

[–]respectmyidentity 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Most of my friends are white. They feel more than qualified to speak on behalf of the Black community and to center white culture's views on the LGBTQ community as though they are universally held by every other racial and ethnic minority group in the US as well. Not the case. TRA's have a lot of power because the dominant culture (rich white people) don't have an issue with them (notably they don't have an issue with the T whereas other groups agree they have no issue with the LGB). On the left it's because they think they are being kind/don't want to lose face with the wolk folk circles they are in, on the right it's because TRA ideology reinforces MRA and evangelical ideologies.

Meanwhile, Catholics and other religions with a high percentage of racial minority groups as worshipers call bullshit. And the elite left thinks it's ok to silence them because they are religious people. And feminists aren't really in touch with these folks because of the abortion and birth control dispute.

The working class gets shit on once again, but I want to be respectful to the Black community as well here, by acknowledging that many Black people feel they are primarily oppressed due to race and not class and in certain aspects I believe that to be true also. I just think it's interesting that white people chose Laverne Cox as their first introduction of trans people to the country. It's hard to question the movement if a Black person is the face of it. That feels intentional - not to diminish Laverne, she seems lovely, I just abhor white people who use minorities as a shield for their real aims (usually $ and corporate interests).

In short - the white elite has done it again. All the normies hate each other, and all the normies especially take issue with Black normies. Not enough normies take issue with the actual root.

[–]Yamyam 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

You know why? It's because when someone's too privileged they find something to complain about.

[–]pennyheax 37 insightful - 2 fun37 insightful - 1 fun38 insightful - 2 fun -  (3 children)

I'm not the OP but I reckon it has to do with black women being one of the most marginalized groups, silenced in the media, and more likely to be victims of male violence. So when TRAs whip out their oppression card, it's met with a collective "so?" I can't recall a single mainstream movement centered exclusively on the issues that black women face, but now we got black trans lives matter.

All that, and highly tuned sensors for white bullshit.

[–]Complicated-Spirit 24 insightful - 1 fun24 insightful - 0 fun25 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I have to wonder if it’s why TRAs are trying to shift BLM towards “Black Trans Lives”. First it was black men, now it’s Black Trans Lives (and let’s be honest with ourselves, that means black TIMs). It’s black TIMs and white people working in tandem: TIMs, because all social movements must be shifted to focus on them; white people, because focusing on TIP at the expense of actual women is kind of their thing, and also because removing the focus from black women and putting it on black TIM - that is, taking it from a person they will encounter regularly to a person they will hardly encounter, if at all, and can thus think of in practically abstract, mythical terms - allows them to maintain their internalized misogyny and racism against black women while at the same time patting themselves on the back for being so damn progressive and on the right side of history.

Basically, “progressive liberal” white people are all over BLM shifting to Black Trans Lives because they don’t perceive black TIP as posing a threat to them. Black TIP are people that exist only just barely beyond a hypothetical idea; black women, on the other hand, are seen and encountered daily. They’ll never admit it, but those self-righteous libfem white people DO find those black women a threat, seemingly so omnipresent and reminding them of the racism they feel brewing inside whenever they see one, so they shift their focus away from black women and towards something they feel “safer” about, since what they’re throwing their support behind has a near-zero percent chance of encroaching on their spaces.

[–]respectmyidentity 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Michael Jackson's niece was stabbed by a trans wo(man) in Vegas. I hope the Black community is up in arms on Twitter.

[–]Yamyam 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

They took every goodamn movement and center it on their own. Women's March? Fuck you, coz they ain't in it. LGB? Fuck that too, and dominated every media with their transness and openned the gate for other alphabets and +. BLM? Well this shit ain't inclusive enough. Now it's Black TRANS Lives Matter.

What a fucking joke.

[–]odateya[S] 23 insightful - 1 fun23 insightful - 0 fun24 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

I can't really provide any concise ideas, I definitely think white women who feel guilty about their privilege want to latch onto a cause that puts them unquestionably on the right side of history as you say. I'm sure the trans rights movement is the easiest to support because they can simply shout TWAW into the wind, receive a cookie, and then go on with their lives. Their success changing policies and forced language change has made them unbearably bold when speaking to us though.

Recalling the times a white/trans women irl/online has tried to speak to us about TRA rights, it does very blatantly come off as a someone coming to share the light and salvation of their lord trans christ with a group of savages. They are so sure we are just ignorant and unaware of how we "should" be treating trans women. When they realize that we reject the ideology BECAUSE we have seen where it leads and because we know what giving them even one inch of would mean for our community, the kill the TERF screeches and chest-thumping begins.

The few white women I have dated have tried to "educate" me about transphobia assuming I simply didn't now anything about TRA activism, and I know damn well they would never date a transwoman either. I honestly don't know why there is the overwhelming assumption that black women support trans rights, I thought that the recent Black Girls Rock fiasco made it clear we don't vibe with the movement.

edit: clarity/grammar

[–]Barber_Acrobatic 19 insightful - 1 fun19 insightful - 0 fun20 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

I'm currently working my way through Douglas Murray's book and he did have an interesting theory on how intersectionalism has created the assumption that being a woman, or gay, or black (amongst other identities) has become synonymous with being left wing. That to say someone is one of those things comes with an assumption of value judgements on their political stance and morality, and that those who openly disagree have simply lost their way. At the root it is essentially deeply paternalistic and patronising in a way that I find deeply uncomfortable. It seems to fall to the idea that those who do not fall into those groups and disagree are morally repugnant, whilst those in the in-groups are ill-educated and stupid.

It does feel like a new religion at times, right down to the missionaries going out to 'spread the word'.

[–]Complicated-Spirit 14 insightful - 1 fun14 insightful - 0 fun15 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

It goes along with the idea that “woman” is a category, whereas “man” is a person. A person can think independently; a category cannot, since categories are blocks of groupthink.

[–]respectmyidentity 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I took African American history in college (I'm white). Colin Powell came up (due to his conservatism and general lack of activism in the African American community during his time under the Bush administration) and I said well "Does he need to care about racism if his life's passion is education? Why does he have to be an activist or care about racial issues just because he is Black?" I was the only white person and my Black classmates let me know in no uncertain terms that what I said was fucked up. Looking back, I have to agree. It was fucked up of me, and invalidating, and unrealistic. Colin Powell is a Black person who has some power and privilege, and he should use it to help the disproportionate number of Black people who don't.

Later, I realized this is what OJ says/said about himself. He is just OJ, he isn't Black. And that really worked for him in terms of getting business deals and acceptance from white wealthy people (of course before his trial anyway). I'm thinking about the parallels between that and TWAW.

My presumption from my college class is that most Black people don't appreciate someone trying to opt-out of their responsibility to help Black people as a class. That is how I feel about "feminists" who support TWAW. And about TIM's who appropriate the female experience. How could a white person possibly speak to the experience of being Black? How could a male possibly understand being female? And just being feminine does not make one female. It's almost like TRA is the gay male (and AGP male) perspective overtaking/defining what it means to be a woman/female.

It just reinforces to me how little respect women have from men, across all races, ethnic groups, and sexual minorities. Males literally think they can do woman better than females can. And no one thinks this is wrong!

[–]Amareldys 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Are you sure? Because I feel like BLM is all about the trans stuff. Tried to join a few years ago but had to fill out a questionnaire that was pretty much all questions about gender and pronouns.

[–]WrongToy 12 insightful - 1 fun12 insightful - 0 fun13 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

go to blacklivesmatter.com. They are def all over the trans stuff and insist I am cis. I'm not cis and I'm not with this particular movement although it should be said that if you do not think Black lives matter, you are a moron.

[–]respectmyidentity 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Perhaps they get funding from TRA's. That seems to be behind all of the other orgs who adhere to this ideology.

[–]-thedarkhorse- 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

You are right, they seem to have skipped 'sex' as per usual.

We are guided by the fact that all Black lives matter, regardless of actual or perceived sexual identity, gender identity, gender expression, economic status, ability, disability, religious beliefs or disbeliefs, immigration status, or location.

We make space for transgender brothers and sisters to participate and lead.

We are self-reflexive and do the work required to dismantle cisgender privilege and uplift Black trans folk, especially Black trans women who continue to be disproportionately impacted by trans-antagonistic violence.

[–]Penguinberri 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

The Rachel dozeal thing is very confusing to me. I'm a white woman so maybe it could be something I don't understand but to me race has always seemed inter changeable and created by society. I see race as a massive spectrum where as gender is so obviously binary: man or woman with genetic intersex as the outliers.

[–]Yamyam 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Transracial actually makes more sense to me than transgender. Just wait, it's gonna be the next thing.

[–]Yamyam 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

It's because of white bullshit that we're even here. That white guilt and being too-accepting. Now this shit is spreading to asia. When the whites and the west do something, asia goddamn follows.

[–]ruskiix 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I think a fair amount of it is also that white men are used to getting away with a lot of shit that anyone else would be punished for. When you put white men in dresses and give them the appearance of a virtuous cause that protects persecuted minorities, they get away with even more. And the fact that what they’re doing is treated as normal (“girldick,” cancelling JK) sort of creates an Emperor’s New Clothes situation where everyone looking at the situation assumes they must be transphobic for not getting it, and tries to self correct enough to avoid the wrath of the mob.

[–]Yamyam 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Trans shit gets taken seriously because at the root of it all, they are men. Ever wondered why it only took them a few years to dominate everything? While women has been doing it for a century and still get sidestepped.