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[–]peakingatthemomentTranssexual (natal male), HSTS 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

I don’t have any power so no one really has to care what I think. For transsexual, a lot of people would use terms like pre-op, post-op, or non-op describe whether someone wanted or had surgery. I feel like non-op are probably different than me, but I don’t really control any language. Transphobia in 2022 just seems like a nonsense idea. I don’t think most current trans identified people now have any idea how normalized all this is compared to years ago. People without any power even talking about having less people transition are being accused actual of genocide. 😂

I feel like if it is just some internal feeling though like no one has to respect it. I know my dysphoria and sense of self is real, but other people might not believe that (and they shouldn’t have to) or just think I was a confused gay man. At least if it is treated as a mental illness with diagnostic criteria, questioning and observation from professionals, and gatekeeping, that makes it something more than just a feeling. Plus, it keeps anyone but people who genuinely can’t function otherwise from pursuing this because hopefully they wouldn’t go through it or would be recognized as being something else. It seems weird that we treat this one set of medical treatments, being done to otherwise healthy bodies, like something people can just choose to do rather than a treatment you receive because it is necessary like most other medical treatment.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

I know my dysphoria and sense of self is real too but anti-trans ppl are coming for all of us, transsexual, transgender etc, and we need to stick together.

Defining it based on a medical condition simply allows doctors to control how and when and why we can access transition care. I don't know about you, but I don't trust a doctor to understand who I am. That's why for me it's based on choice, it's based on bodily autonomy--i should not need a reason to be who I am or to transition, I should not have to explain it to someone who's never been dysphoric.

Transphobia in 2022 just seems like a nonsense idea

I'm sorry but you're fucking blind if you think this, there are literally bills in multiple states trying to ban healthcare for those under 18, 19, 21. Adults will be next. Right-wing and GC figures alike calling us a problem to a sane world, trying to make us fit into their worldview that doesn't include transness.

Heck, there r still plenty of garden-variety transphobes too, ppl who call us slurs or act like we're disgusting. My mother is that way.

I used to be like you, I used to think that if only I were nice enough, if only I tried to compromise, that there would be a place for me to be, well, me, in this world. I'm done. I know where I stand and it's with trans people, the right to transition. We don't need anyone's permission.

You can either keep licking their boots and try and escape the rising tide. or you can support others like us and everyone who's trans

I don't care if you ban me, a ban from here is nothing compared to being banned from being trans, which is what will happen if I don't stand up for myself

[–]Fleurista💐 Transsexual 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

What are 'trans' people though? It's not very descriptive, other than people 'whose identity/expression/appearance/presentation does not match their sex (at birth)/assigned sex (at birth)', which doesn't reflect the history or reasoning for why a person transitions--and it's the reasoning for transitioning that makes it impossible to group 'trans people' as people with anything in common beyond a vague concept and superficial appearances.

Transitioning because one struggles to live as a member of their sex because of how they look, act, appear, behave, etc. (in other words, because they struggle with being perceived as members of their (birth/natal/assigned) sex) is a completely different experience to transitioning because one feels uncomfortable in their sex-associated social role, which is a completely different experience to transitioning because one wishes they were the opposite sex for some other reason. Thinking of oneself as the other sex isn't necessarily the same as thinking of oneself as trans, but both could happen simultaneously or not at all.

I wonder if 'trans' should just be considered synonymous with gender nonconformity, because that particular aspect of 'being trans' is what makes people 'transphobic'--it's aversion to gender nonconformity. It gets strange the more one resembles the opposite sex because that means one is more gender-conforming for the opposite sex, so transphobia manifests and is experienced differently, if at all. If one doesn't 'pass', then transphobia via Gender Critical-ism is because of reinforcing and (being seen as) dehumanizing members of the opposite sex, trivializing what it means to be a member of that sex, whereas the transphobia a person who 'passes' would more likely experience would be due to a person's or group of peoples' discomfort with someone not behaving or appearing as one would expect a member of their sex to behave and appear.

Saying trans people need to stick together because we are all the same because we are all trans seems analogous to GC, ideological extremists or anyone else grouping all trans people together as being the same. Both GCs and TRAs seem to try to do that, obfuscating the reasoning for why some of us are the way we are and how we came to live the lives we do: they lump the minority in with the majority and call the majority the minority. This is why people 'peak', because they come to understand that 'trans' does not refer to transsexuals or the classic stereotype of a very feminine gay man, but rather people who claim to identify as the opposite sex in order to escape their problems associated with being that person as opposed to anything to do with sex/gender/roles/etc.

If a male experiences the world being perceived by most everyone as a woman, why would they feel they have more in common with trans people rather than women? I feel like that experience is ignored, downplayed, and/or met with hostility by the majority of trans people (who are not transsexuals) because they cannot comprehend that experience themselves, and there is resentment towards transsexuals like this. Most trans peoples' experiences are not those of transsexuals', so they take the interpretation of their own experience and apply it to transsexuals, then claim that they have the same experience because they don't pass yet they feel they are or should be another sex or gender, so the feeling of dissatisfaction one has with their sex/gender/role is interpreted as being the same, when it really isn't.

We can all support freedom of choice on matters of personal expression or if a person wants to modify or alter their body or appearance, and we can all condemn bigoty and prejudice against trans people, but I have difficulty finding solidarity simply in 'being trans', because that alone is not a universal experience.

[–]Chronicity[S] 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

I personally think the concept of “gender non-conforming” is as problematic as “trans”. It affirms that idea that there are a set of sex stereotypes members of the class called women or men adhere to by default, and deviating from these stereotypes merits a special term.

How many people truly conform to sex stereotypes, though? I’ve never see the woman who wears makeup and dresses but curses like a sailor and works as a CEO for a construction company called GNC, but why not? If a man went around calling himself GNC simply because he is non-athletic, nurturing, and likes baking, I suspect no one would take that seriously. So it only seems like the most superficial, externally obvious traits qualify someone as GNC. This is an implicit admission that our concept of gender is purely aesthetic. Why should we assign any importance to clothing, grooming, and hairstyles?

I fully support people expressing themselves how they like, regardless of their biological sex. But I don’t believe in labeling people “GNC” just because their expression differs from a set of superficial stereotypes.

[–]Fleurista💐 Transsexual 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

These terms seem mostly unhelpful, because they are so vague--they describe things that are so subjective and manifest so differently as to be seemingly meaningless. We maybe shouldn't ascribe so much meaning or give so much power to expectations regarding clothing, grooming, hairstyles, etc. but people still do. People are discriminated against or treated with prejudice because of such things, which does need some sort of recognition, or else oppression based on stereotypes ascribed to sex is just reinforced, or at least permitted.

[–]MarkTwainiac 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

We maybe shouldn't ascribe so much meaning or give so much power to expectations regarding clothing, grooming, hairstyles, etc. but people still do. People are discriminated against or treated with prejudice because of such things, which does need some sort of recognition, or else oppression based on stereotypes

Can you give some concrete examples of people who in this day and age are being discriminated against and treated with prejudice in ways that are clearly unlawful - or should be unlawful - in workplaces, schools or commercial establishments because their "clothing, grooming, hairstyles" don't conform to sex stereotypes?

Please cite specific examples of people who due to having clothing, grooming and/or hairstyles that aren't in line with sex stereotypes were refused service in a bar or restaurant or store; were denied admission to schools and entertainment venues; were denied the right to participate in sports; were turned down for a mortgage or other bank loan or service; were turned away from a hospital or urgent care when seeking basic health care; were not allowed to board a commercial airliner or use other public transport... and so on.

I have a strong sense that a lot of people who identify as trans or have some other kind of special gender identities these days felt shamed, bullied and mistreated by family members, school mates and neighborhood bullies when they were growing up - and as adults they take these experiences and use them as the template that shapes their view of, and approach to, the whole world beyond their homes, home towns and school play grounds. I have a feeling that many trans people also take the difficulties they experience in the dating realm and in their relationships with certain family members and friends and project them onto everyone they encounter in every sphere of life. They assume they will face the exact same difficulties, judgments and rejection they got from their mom or dad, and the cold shoulders they got from their teenage crushes, with every one else in the world they encounter. When the reality is, the big outside world often is very different than people imagine it to be. Most people we encounter don't spend time thinking ill of us - most people don't spend any time thinking about us at all.