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[–]Chronicity[S] 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

I personally think the concept of “gender non-conforming” is as problematic as “trans”. It affirms that idea that there are a set of sex stereotypes members of the class called women or men adhere to by default, and deviating from these stereotypes merits a special term.

How many people truly conform to sex stereotypes, though? I’ve never see the woman who wears makeup and dresses but curses like a sailor and works as a CEO for a construction company called GNC, but why not? If a man went around calling himself GNC simply because he is non-athletic, nurturing, and likes baking, I suspect no one would take that seriously. So it only seems like the most superficial, externally obvious traits qualify someone as GNC. This is an implicit admission that our concept of gender is purely aesthetic. Why should we assign any importance to clothing, grooming, and hairstyles?

I fully support people expressing themselves how they like, regardless of their biological sex. But I don’t believe in labeling people “GNC” just because their expression differs from a set of superficial stereotypes.

[–]Fleurista💐 Transsexual 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

These terms seem mostly unhelpful, because they are so vague--they describe things that are so subjective and manifest so differently as to be seemingly meaningless. We maybe shouldn't ascribe so much meaning or give so much power to expectations regarding clothing, grooming, hairstyles, etc. but people still do. People are discriminated against or treated with prejudice because of such things, which does need some sort of recognition, or else oppression based on stereotypes ascribed to sex is just reinforced, or at least permitted.

[–]MarkTwainiac 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

We maybe shouldn't ascribe so much meaning or give so much power to expectations regarding clothing, grooming, hairstyles, etc. but people still do. People are discriminated against or treated with prejudice because of such things, which does need some sort of recognition, or else oppression based on stereotypes

Can you give some concrete examples of people who in this day and age are being discriminated against and treated with prejudice in ways that are clearly unlawful - or should be unlawful - in workplaces, schools or commercial establishments because their "clothing, grooming, hairstyles" don't conform to sex stereotypes?

Please cite specific examples of people who due to having clothing, grooming and/or hairstyles that aren't in line with sex stereotypes were refused service in a bar or restaurant or store; were denied admission to schools and entertainment venues; were denied the right to participate in sports; were turned down for a mortgage or other bank loan or service; were turned away from a hospital or urgent care when seeking basic health care; were not allowed to board a commercial airliner or use other public transport... and so on.

I have a strong sense that a lot of people who identify as trans or have some other kind of special gender identities these days felt shamed, bullied and mistreated by family members, school mates and neighborhood bullies when they were growing up - and as adults they take these experiences and use them as the template that shapes their view of, and approach to, the whole world beyond their homes, home towns and school play grounds. I have a feeling that many trans people also take the difficulties they experience in the dating realm and in their relationships with certain family members and friends and project them onto everyone they encounter in every sphere of life. They assume they will face the exact same difficulties, judgments and rejection they got from their mom or dad, and the cold shoulders they got from their teenage crushes, with every one else in the world they encounter. When the reality is, the big outside world often is very different than people imagine it to be. Most people we encounter don't spend time thinking ill of us - most people don't spend any time thinking about us at all.