Calls for trans elimination

submitted by [deleted] from self.GCdebatesQT

sorted by:
top
newinsightfulfun
you are viewing a single comment's thread.

view the rest of the comments →

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (4 children)

We’re not talking about how much being a woman affects my daily life. We’re talking about what makes someone a woman.

Being perceived that way by others.

In order to be a woman you must be female according to every English language dictionary. To say that women are defined by societal norms (sex stereotypes) is misogyny

We're all defined by how others see us. I'm an adult human female too, at least from the perspective of everyone who matters in my life. The dictionary doesn't have any bearing on that.

So a transwoman is not a woman if they do not pass 100% of the time. Is that what you’re saying?

If it's an occasional misread then they're still a woman. Passing is contextual, butch women occasionally mistaken as men are still women. So it's more a majority of the time instead of 100%.

I already said I don’t care if you take synthetic hormones.

But you care about whether I get medical support in doing so.

So yes, you don’t believe females deserve spaces away from males.

"Deserve"? Spaces away from men. Trans women are not men. If you want to exclude us for your book club or for a women's shelter that you run then that's your decision.

Yeah, if only there were a term that made that clear? How much do you want to bet if we conceded "homosexual" and made a new term for exclusive same sex attraction, that would be appropriated too?

My point is that it's not clear, so you can't insist that it only has one meaning when people clearly use it to mean same-sex or same-gender attraction. If you want to primarily call yourself same-sex attracted go ahead but having that in your bio will probably get raised eyebrows.

You will not have female primary sex characteristics when you rearrange your male genitalia. You will have rearranged male primary sex characteristics.

They'll be female primary sex characteristics because my genitalia will be functionally and perceptually like other women's.

[–][deleted] 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

I'm an adult human female too

Define female for me please. Keep in mind you cannot use the word female in your definition.

So it's more a majority of the time instead of 100%.

Lol so what percentage of the time does someone need to be perceived as a woman in order to be a woman? Be specific. Women need rights and protections that men don't need so it's important that you're able to clearly define this boundary. Also I'm assuming you also believe that transwomen are not women until they pass whatever percentage of time you'll be deciding makes someone a woman.

But you care about whether I get medical support in doing so.

This is news to me!

Spaces away from men.

I love how I wrote male and you interpreted that to mean men. I guess you do agree with dictionary definitions.

My point is that it's not clear, so you can't insist that it only has one meaning when people clearly use it to mean same-sex or same-gender attraction.

I'm insisting that there needs to be a term for exclusive same sex attraction because it isn't clear when you use homosexual to also mean bisexual. It's homophobic to not let exclusively same sex attractive people define themselves and organize independently of bisexual people.

They'll be female primary sex characteristics because my genitalia will be functionally and perceptually like other women's.

In order to believe this, you have to believe that the only "function" of a vagina is a hole able to be penetrated by a penis.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (2 children)

Define female for me please

Someone who does or did or will or would, if not for intersex conditions or extenuating circumstances, produce ova.

I consider my unfortunate luck in being amab an extenuating circumstance that I am rectifying as much as possible.

Lol so what percentage of the time does someone need to be perceived as a woman in order to be a woman

The majority of the time.

Women need rights and protections that men don't need so it's important that you're able to clearly define this boundary

Trans women need the same rights and protections.

I love how I wrote male and you interpreted that to mean men.

I was narrowing it to men and not male..

It's homophobic to not let exclusively same sex attractive people define themselves and organize independently of bisexual people.

I'm not stopping u from defining yourselves and organizing. Use whatever words you like for yourselves and I'll use whatever words I like for myself.

In order to believe this, you have to believe that the only "function" of a vagina is a hole able to be penetrated by a penis.

No, I never said that nor do I believe it's the case. I meant in terms of vaginal flora and structure. Although, trans women will probably need to have C-sections in the future unless SRS becomes basically a lab-grown organ transplant (which I certainly hope it does)

[–]MarkTwainiac 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I meant in terms of vaginal flora and structure.

I think you mean shape, not structure. And by shape I mean rough shape, as in approximation. No matter what tissue is used in your surgery, the cavity you end up with won't have the structure and qualities of the muscular, highly elastic, incredibly powerful female organ called a vagina.

Also, sorry to rain on your parade, but it won't have the flora of a vagina, either. Because it won't have the unique, self-cleaning mucosal lining of a vagina with its billions of constantly-working proton pumps.

Although, trans women will probably need to have C-sections in the future unless SRS becomes basically a lab-grown organ transplant (which I certainly hope it does)

What are you on about here suddenly bringing up C-sections? A C-section can only be performed on a pregnant woman whose uterus has a live fetus in it. You said you were getting surgery to acquire an approximation of a vagina. A vagina is a not the same organ as a uterus - and no one who gets the kind of surgery you're planning to have comes out of it with a uterus or anything like a uterus.

Your expectations of your surgery don't sound at all realistic. Please for your own sake do more research before going under the knife. Sounds like you've been sold a bill of goods, and have fallen for a lot of BS hook, line and sinker.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

No matter what tissue is used in your surgery, the cavity you end up with won't have the structure and qualities of the muscular, highly elastic, incredibly powerful female organ called a vagina.

It really depends on what the future of SRS holds. If we can eventually grow vaginal tissue in a lab, then they could potentially graft that. Same for billions of proton pumps.

Although, SRS right now has reached a pretty okay state. I've heard from friends who have had vaginoplasty that it works "good enough".

What are you on about here suddenly bringing up C-sections?

Because current vaginoplasty wouldn't give the capability to birth a child. I would like to be a mother someday, so I think about these things, whether I should wait to get vaginoplasty and see if trans woman pregnancy becomes viable first, etc.

Your expectations of your surgery don't sound at all realistic

It was literally people on this sub and the banned, horrible disaster surgery subreddit that have held me back. I've always wanted this, I just got misled into thinking results would be horrific but I've been finding that's not the case at all.