GC: Are men entitled to male-only spaces?

submitted by womanual from self.GCdebatesQT

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[–]worried19 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (16 children)

I think it's fine for men to have strict sex-segregated spaces. I admit I do often use men's restrooms and have ever since I was a little kid, but I wouldn't use them if men had a problem with it. As it is, I've only ever had trouble in women's restrooms, not men's.

[–]womanual[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (15 children)

I wouldn't worry about how men feel. There were times were men were uncomfortable with my presence in men's facilities. I just accuse them of mansplaining or being racist and then they just move about. As a woman, it's not my job to cater to men's feelings.

[–]Omina_SentenziosaSarcastic Ovalord 13 insightful - 1 fun13 insightful - 0 fun14 insightful - 1 fun -  (14 children)

This is the first time since I joined Saidit in which I wish there was a downvote button. And it' s not like I haven' t read stupid shit in this sub since its inception.

Men are mansplaining when they say that women shouldn' t be in men' s rooms and locker rooms. Got it. 👍

[–]womanual[S] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (13 children)

Accusing men of mansplaining is my way of shutting men up. Anyway, men have no real need for those spaces. Women never sexually harass men. I googled "women rapes men" and can't find a single story, even though men are significantly more likely to be taken seriously than women when they report rape. Anyway, if the man wanted me out of the locker room, all he had to do was go to the manager and tell them I'm harassing him. That would most certainly get me removed and arrested. Even though I am short and he was big he could still accuse me of rape and be taken seriously because men always back up other men.

[–]Omina_SentenziosaSarcastic Ovalord 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (12 children)

Sex segregated spaces don' t exist just because of potential assault. They exist also because men and women have different bodies. Urinals are in the open, men might not want to show their dicks to someone who doesn' t have a dick, just like we, more often than not, do not want to clean our menstruation cup around men.

Dignity and privacy are things that everyone should have, not just women. You might not care, but by not caring and by acting like it doesn' t matter because you had it rough so you enjoy taking it out on the ones you don' t like or envy for their position, you are behaving no better than any TRA who uses the same arguments against us.

[–]womanual[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (11 children)

In my experience most penis owners don't care if women are in their spaces. In fact, a great percentage get aroused by the presence of a woman, more than those who are bother by a woman's presence. If you care about what people born with penises think, including their dignity and privacy rights, fine. But I don't because my feminism doesn't cater to those who aren't born female.

[–]MarkTwainiac 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

You can't keep your story straight. Within the space of minutes you've claimed:

In my experience most penis owners don't care if women are in their spaces. In fact, a great percentage get aroused by the presence of a woman, more than those who are bother by a woman's presence.

And

There were times were men were uncomfortable with my presence in men's facilities. I just accuse them of mansplaining or being racist and then they just move about.

So if people are uncomfortable with you barging into a space you shouldn't be, you harass them until they leave. Tactics straight out of the TRA malignant narcissist playbook.

Also, I wonder what you do to young boys. Never occurred to me before that unaccompanied young boys using men's toilets and changing facilities might be at risk of being verbally abused by a woman in those spaces.

Your use of the term "my feminism" makes it sound like you have your individual brand of feminism, or you think you own feminism. But your uncivil, anti-social attitude and boorish behavior, which you seem to be proud of, isn't helping girls and women. How can we hope to have our boundaries respected when women like you are hellbent on trampling the boundaries of others, and you insist no human being of the male sex has a right to any boundaries and bodily privacy in the first place?

[–]womanual[S] 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

So if people are uncomfortable with you barging into a space you shouldn't be, you harass them until they leave. Tactics straight out of the TRA malignant narcissist playbook.

A PRIVILEGED group has no need to create a space for themselves. If it was women dominating men, getting paid more than men, and repeatedly sexually harassing, raping and assaulting men, I would be against women's spaces too.

Also, I wonder what you do to young boys. Never occurred to me before that unaccompanied young boys using men's toilets and changing facilities might be at risk of being verbally abused by a woman in those spaces.

Is there a case of boys being verbally abused by grown women in men's toilets and changing facilities when the boy was obviously minding his own business? I think they are more likely to be abused by men because men tend to be more aggressive.

Your use of the term "my feminism" makes it sound like you have your individual brand of feminism, or you think you own feminism.

What I'm saying is I as a feminist do not cater to men’s wants and desires. Clearly other feminists do, but I don't because I'm a feminist and am only focused on the rights of women.

How can we hope to have our boundaries respected when women like you are hellbent on trampling the boundaries of others, and you insist no human being of the male sex has a right to any boundaries and bodily privacy in the first place?

We've given men 1,000 chances by respecting their boundaries, yet they continue to harass, assault and patronize us. I have come to the realization that men will not change just because we start respecting their boundaries. I remember at my old work male customers would sexually harass female coworkers. Female customers never sexually harassed anyone as far as I recall. I even told one co-worker who had a customer make sexual comments towards her to expect this kind of behavior because they don't know how to act. Other coworkers overheard and we had a discussion about it. Another female co-worker called me a misandrist, even though I kept reminding her which sex makes up 99% of sex offenders. I google sex offender maps and have yet to find a female sex offender. She told me the classic NAMALT. I explained to this co-worker about male privilege and ow men get taken seriously at every turn but not women. I gave up on trying to change men. Being a little Mozart minuet about their spaces is not going to change them.

[–]MarkTwainiac 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

What I'm saying is I as a feminist do not cater to men’s wants and desires. Clearly other feminists do, but I don't because I'm a feminist and am only focused on the rights of women.

No one is expecting that you cater to men's wants and desires. The issue is that as members of a plural society, we're all supposed to show regard for the social conventions whereby members of both sexes are afforded privacy rights when toileting and changing. Coz otherwise we end up with a free-for-all, and all the safeguards put in place to protect women, girls and others who are vulnerable get lost.

You don't have to respect men's and boys' boundaries, or men and boys for that matter. You can hate them and think they're all pieces of shit. But what is expected is that when out and about in the world, you - and all the rest of us - behave in ways that respect the boundaries themselves. Because boundaries make it possible for people to exist side by side in the world. And boundaries are often there for reasons that aren't immediately evident. Chesterton's fence.

You seem to have decided that when it comes to single sex facilities meant to afford bodily privacy from the opposite sex, you're going to do as you want with no concern about how this will affect others. In fact, you seem to go out of your way to go into men's private spaces to demonstrate how much disdain you have for boys and men, and to show your disregard for longstanding social conventions. Which is exactly what the TRAs and QTs are doing. Every time you go into a men's toilet or change room or locker room to show how much you don't care about males or any social boundaries, you are lending support to the side that says males should be able to access female spaces whenever they want.

[–]womanual[S] 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

The issue is that as members of a plural society, we're all supposed to show regard for the social conventions whereby members of both sexes are afforded privacy rights when toileting and changing.

So are you saying we should not deviate from what mainstream society says about bodily privacy? Every single social movement that gained rights for a marginalized group had to fight mainstream social conventions. Maybe they should have accepted social conventions that black people as slaves and LGBs as deviant subhumans.

Coz otherwise we end up with a free-for-all, and all the safeguards put in place to protect women, girls and others who are vulnerable get lost.

This is exactly what I'm worried about. I think Gavin Grimm and any other female should have the right to use boy's toilets if they so desire, but I don't want the protections from girls and women removed. I view it like affirmative action. It was not meant to benefit men and white people as groups.

But what is expected is that when out and about in the world, you - and all the rest of us - behave in ways that respect the boundaries themselves. Because boundaries make it possible for people to exist side by side in the world.

Sorry, nope. Not because you say so. I also don't want men to have the same legal protections women have regarding their spaces. In my state people can use whichever restroom corresponds with their gender identity, and anyone who harasses these people in the restroom would be in jail. I think a better solution is to only apply these laws to male facilities - or even better - make male facilities for everyone and female facilities are only for women and girls who were born female who specifically want to get away from males.

[–]womanual[S] 1 insightful - 2 fun1 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

In most cases penis havers get aroused. In some cases, penis havers complain.

[–]MarkTwainiac 8 insightful - 7 fun8 insightful - 6 fun9 insightful - 7 fun -  (0 children)

Yeah, I got that. And you must really be something if all the men you encounter get erections the minute they set eyes on you.

[–]Omina_SentenziosaSarcastic Ovalord 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

Cool? You' re the one who started the thread asking what we thought on the matter.

a great percentage get aroused by the presence of a woman

If that' s true, why would you intentionally put yourself in that position? Why going to a place where you know that you will be stared at and probably used to get a boner? I don' t understand the logic behind it.

[–]womanual[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I don't care if penis owners have an erection in front of me.

[–]Omina_SentenziosaSarcastic Ovalord 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Good for you. It' s a match made in Heaven, then. They will be happy to have someone new to get horny for, and you will be ok with that because... I am not sure what the ultimate goal is here, but I suspect you don' t either.

I thought you used men' s spaces to piss them off, but you said that it arouses them, so ultimately, you are catering to their needs and wants and making them happy.

That wil teach them how bad their sexism is!!!!