QT/pro-trans: What are the most common misconceptions gender critical people have about things like being trans, gender identity, your goals or activism, etc?

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[–]circlingmyownvoid2 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (8 children)

Women come into the equation when you’ve so often stated that the only way to keep transwomen safe from other men is to allow them into women’s spaces.

Most practical and viable, not only possible. I’ve repeatedly said single occupancy neutral spaces are closed preferable but will not be commonplace without a federal mandate.

Consider this, you’re afraid because you’re about, by your own estimate,5% weaker than the average man. We are afraid because the average transwoman is at least 30-45% stronger than us.

Actually I’m post op and have been for an extended period. I’ve lost about 40-50 percent of my pre transition strength. And that was 5 percent of muscle mass in the first year.

Why are our fears of that much greater strength so dismissible when your fear of a much smaller difference is so great?

Access and likelihood of violence. More men will attack trans women than trans women will attack men. And they are more capable when they do engage in violence.

There’s a thousand criminal cases proving otherwise.

No there are not. At the minimum this is wildly hyperbolic.

[–]HouseplantWomen who disagree with QT are a different sex 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

So my claims are hyperbolic despite me having the ability to prove it, but your claims which you have repeatedly refused to back up are gospel?

I found over fifty cases of transwomen assaulting, killing, or molesting women and girls in under ten minutes. You really think I couldn’t find a thousand?

Do you ever read back things you say like that and think wow, that’s weird?

Share the stats or please stop making baseless claims you made up on the fly. You cannot reasonably be expected to be taken at your word when you insist anything we say without figures is hyperbole or a lie.

Since you always say the third options/spaces are impossible, you’re clearly advocating for trans women’s access to women’s spaces. Does our fear of males not matter? Do men attack women less?

[–]circlingmyownvoid2 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

So my claims are hyperbolic despite me having the ability to prove it, but your claims which you have repeatedly refused to back up are gospel?

You do not have thousands of cases of trans women being violent towards trans women.

I found over fifty cases of transwomen assaulting, killing, or molesting women and girls in under ten minutes. You really think I couldn’t find a thousand?

I absolutely do not.

Share the stats or please stop making baseless claims you made up on the fly. You cannot reasonably be expected to be taken at your word when you insist anything we say without figures is hyperbole or a lie.

You mean other than the study I just cited?

Since you always say the third options/spaces are impossible, you’re clearly advocating for trans women’s access to women’s spaces. Does our fear of males not matter? Do men attack women less?

Didn’t say impossible. Said Impractical and requiring a federal mandate. Ive said it’s impossible for trans women to create those spaces ourselves. That’s not that they are impossible generally.

Does our fear of males not matter? Do men attack women less?

Less trans women attack natal women than men. And less natal women attack trans women than men attack trans women. Of the currently available 2 options trans women with natal women minimizes total incidents of violence. It’s not an optimal solution but consider this:

Two people are in a small shelter. The shelter is surrounded by tigers. If one persons says to the other “get out of this shelter, you can build your own to protect you from the tigers” does that theoretical possibility protect the second person from tigers in the mean time?

[–]adungitit 7 insightful - 2 fun7 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 2 fun -  (5 children)

Impractical and requiring a federal mandate. Ive said it’s impossible for trans women to create those spaces ourselves.

Boo fucking hoo. Yes, tell us women more how impossible it is to create special spaces for us, we definitely don't have a clue about those struggles (also do it while trying to dismantle these spaces in the same breath).

It's "impractical" to advocate your own spaces, but it's not "impractical" to dismantle women's spaces and force everyone to call men women because of what pronouns they use? Trans people sure have a ton of power for being so voiceless.

Two people are in a small shelter. The shelter is surrounded by tigers. If one persons says to the other “get out of this shelter, you can build your own to protect you from the tigers” does that theoretical possibility protect the second person from tigers in the mean time?

Uh, no. One person is in a shelter that they've made for themselves. There's a bunch of tigers outside. One tiger is bullied and bitten by the others, so it says "Let me in, these tigers are dangerous! I'm weaker than them! I'm one of you!" and the person refuses and tells them to build their own shelter, does that protect the tiger in the mean time? Should the person be made to share their space with the tiger?

Also, we'd be more understanding if any trans person advocated their own spaces. This is not even in the picture anywhere because it'd be "invalidating". In fact, more people are advocating dismantling gendered spaces in general than creating trans spaces.

[–]HouseplantWomen who disagree with QT are a different sex 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

It’s impractical to advocate for themselves..feels like such a wishy-washy statement. It’s hard? So was getting the right to vote and be considered people not property, it wasn’t practical to get women’s spaces in the first place. I cannot understand this idea that women got their rights easily and freely and are just hoarding the safety out of hatred of transwomen, not reasonable fear of them as men.

It’s exhausting to see this learned helplessness from qt. Women are already expected to take up so much responsibility for men, transwomen just expect women to take them under wing like they’re scared little girls.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

we'd be more understanding if any trans person advocated their own spaces. This is not even in the picture anywhere because it'd be "invalidating".

I'm really sorry change isn't happening fast enough. It would certainly be more reassuring as a sign of progress if it were more obvious or noticeable, but I can see how it might not be evident even if it's really happening. Hopefully things can change on a bit more of a grander scale over time.

[–]adungitit 5 insightful - 2 fun5 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 2 fun -  (2 children)

It's not that change isn't happening fast enough, it's that no-one is advocating for said change, and the only change that is being advocated and that is currently happening with lighting speed is one where women's protections are being dismantled for the sake of gender validation. Trans activists can spend an enormous amount of vitriol and effort on (successfully) rolling back feminist progress and removing women's rights, but making their own spaces is just too bothersome or impossible because no-one would listen to them.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 1 fun1 insightful - 0 fun2 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

It does seem that way. What's unfortunate is that the trans people who advocate against TRA goals and ideology seem rather disconnected--maybe there are more than there appears to be, but we don't seem very well-connected to each other or organized to the same degree as TRAs or even radfems. It really isn't good enough.

As a trans person who has been advocating for such changes, is there anything I or others like me can do to make a more significant impact and have our voices better heard?

[–]adungitit 3 insightful - 2 fun3 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 2 fun -  (0 children)

I don't think radical feminism is ever going to be attractive to trans people. It flies directly in the face of the idea that one can become a woman through playing out gender roles, or having a woman's brain, or "feeling" like a woman, or having a fetish for becoming a woman, or whatever other "female essence" people evoke to legitimise this wishful thinking. For women, the goal is to shed gender roles and all other nonsense surrounding their sex. If this happens, male trans people, by virtue of not being female, cannot in any way be considered women.

According to trans ideology and liberal feminism, rejecting gender roles is actually sexist because these things aren't actually bad, and actually we all have a gendersoul attracting us to our role and words don't mean a thing anyways etc. Liberal feminism is the perfect ally for trans people because, having concluded that rejecting and criticising femininity is "misogynistic", it sold feminine women the idea that the shackles of femininity and objectification aren't a problem since anyone can take them on. I feel like trans ideology cannot be attacked on its own, because it feeds off of all the flawed misogynistic ideas present in liberal feminism. Sadly the biggest critics of liberal feminism are either GC who've welcomed rape-culture-loving conservatives in with open arms, or trans-inclusive radical feminists who, despite it being at odds with the entire movement, claim that trans rights are consistent with feminism because "they just are, don't question it you transphobe".