Mark! Thank you for being so patient, and thank you for sharing your thoughts and experiences, too. I wanted to take time to ponder and try to better see things from your perspective.

You’re right, I was talking about femininity in general being hated or looked down on, just because it’s associated with women, so to me it seems like an extension of misogyny (though it sounds like I might be mistaken). And yes, by ‘femininity’ I’m talking about it here as anything that might be associated with women--but it probably is indeed more accurate to say that it’s anything not ‘masculine’ that’s abhorred, though that wasn’t my original intent.

Or, in some cases, "femininity" means being interested in romance, sewing, baking & doing things like sighing upon waking (sorry, Fleurista, luv, I couldn't resist)

Well played, Mark 😹👏 I do know better now that really femininity is more akin to whispered dandelion wishes. (en garde!😊)

You and Sloane make good points that reveal my thinking to be rather myopic regarding this (and a lot more, honestly), so thank you very much for that. There really are a lot of reasons men (or both sexes, as you said) hate and mistreat women, and I’ve seen a lot of what you are talking about. At least a lot of people in the comments in those videos called that YouTuber out. To each their own, and it’s admirable that a person could be confident and happy with their body, but in this context I don't really know what that's like.

I understand that women’s rights are for women, not males or transwomen, even if there might be something resembling overlap for some things. I really wasn’t aware that I or others like me might be ‘drafting’, and I’m still kind of trying to fully understand what you mean. Is advocating and fighting for women’s rights helpful if we aren’t trying to claim those rights for ourselves, or include ourselves in them? Are we more helpful allies if we just stay away?

Some might say it’s prudish or close-minded of me, but to me it’s rather shocking to me to see the open displays of peoples’ kinks and, as PhilosopherTentacles put it elsewhere, sociopathic behavior. I can’t imagine having lived in the 50s, 60s, 70s or even 80s and seeing the world as it is today in the midst of the identity and gender and kink obsession. Especially after reading that article about bringing children to Pride festivals to expose them to sex and sexuality and kink, this seems like the sort of deviant and predatory world that many (oftentimes) conservative people feared it would become.

When you asked about healthcare discrimination, Robert Eads came to mind, although Eads died way back in 1999 for being refused non-transition related medical treatment (for ovarian cancer in Eads’ case). Tyra Hunter is another person who died from a car crash because EMTs would not treat them, though this is even farther back in 1995. More recently is the death of Shaun Smith who died of diabetic ketoacidosis, though it isn’t entirely clear if EMTs didn’t intervene because Smith was trans and there aren't a ton of articles about this case. Another more recent case I just saw is of someone being refused a hysterectomy for being trans, but then I read that most doctors won’t perform hysterectomies on younger women unless it is absolutely necessary (I lost the article/name, will link when found). There was one more story of someone who wasn't told they had cancer allegedly because the doctor was shocked to discover the patient was trans, but I'll add more details and a link when I find it again. Based on what I'm finding, it seems legal discrimination (meaning discrimination that is legal at the time) was much more common in the past than now (which is maybe true of all kinds of legal discrimination), and it seems like there are a lot of legal protections for trans people (specifically regarding healthcare in this instance) that protect against health professionals refusing to provide treatment to trans people that isn't related to trans-specific issues. Having said all of that, illegal discrimination (discrimination that is not legal) may be pervasive, but I don't believe we're talking about that here.

Would terms like 'erroneous misogyny', 'faux misogyny' or 'mistaken misogyny' be more appropriate when referring to what some trans males/transwomen experience? Since the intent and actions might be the same, would using the word 'misogyny' with a specifier in that context be appropriate? I'm genuinely unsure what to call things that I can only interpret as misogynistic, even if they may be directed at someone with a male body by mistake--I'm unsure of how one might correct that without 'outing' themselves. All that said, I do love the English language, so coming up with another term for what happens to some males is actually kind of a fun idea to me!

Again, I really do appreciate your candor! 🙂