you are viewing a single comment's thread.

view the rest of the comments →

[–]MissAnarchistQT is cringe[S] 9 insightful - 3 fun9 insightful - 2 fun10 insightful - 3 fun -  (5 children)

Thank you so much for responding! Your input was very enlightening. I will need to take a look at your book recommendations as well.

One follow-up question I have with regard to the changing of legal documentation: do you think there is any possibility to find a middle ground solution to this issue? While allowing legal sex change does have a number of ramifications that cannot be ignored, I understand that many transsexuals deal with severe social consequences when their legal sex doesn't match up with the sex they socially live as. Evidently, being allowed to change legal sex documentation is far from a real solution, but do you think there may be an alternative/middle ground?

[–]Penultimate_Penance 11 insightful - 3 fun11 insightful - 2 fun12 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

That's a tough one. The slippery slope is very real here with men demanding and gaining! access to women's prisons, rape crisis shelters, women's sports leagues and so on. Things have gotten so absurd that a reductio ad absurdum is already the reality. Which is why I am drawing a hard line at not allowing legal document sex change. This is for the sake of women's rights and trans people safety. Ex. If the wrong sex is on their driver license in an emergency they may get opposite sex medical treatment that could kill them literally.

Normalizing gender nonconformity would go a long way to making trans identified people's particularly trans identified males lives easier. Women have already normalized dressing in 'men's' clothing. It's normal for us to wear pants now as an example. Source: Women arrested for wearing pants (not an ideal source, but you get the idea) Women were the change they wanted to see. I continue that tradition by not shaving and not wearing makeup, because I believe it should be normal for women to exist in their natural state the same way it is for men. Fortunately I'm not getting arrested for it though.

Trans identified males need to be inspired by women's history and toughness, buck up and start normalizing feminine presenting men in society. Claiming to actually be a woman is the cowards solution. Society is more comfortable with a transwoman than a gender nonconforming man which is one reason I suspect trans activism took off despite the absurdity. There are extremely conservative countries that harshly punish homosexuals that embrace transgenderism, because a transwomen is easier for them to tolerate and accept than a feminine gay man.

We need to embrace that there is no such thing as a 'girls toy' or a 'boys toy'. Girls aren't born innately feminine, boys are not innately masculine. Biology is not destiny. Femininity does not = woman. Masculinity does not = man. Both sexes can be varying degrees of masculine and feminine. We need to separate 'gender' from who a person is. Gendered expectations are cultural impositions, not innate. When feminine gay men are fully accepted as a normal part of human variation transwomen's lives will be much easier as well. The same applies to transmen.

The trans movement unfortunately is regressive, because it is pushing back the progress we were making in accepting gender nonconforming people. Saying a masculine woman must be a man isn't progress. Transing historical gender nonconforming individuals isn't progress. Most of us don't quite fit into the straightjacket of femininity or masculinity.

There are a lot of gender nonconforming people myself included who are horrified by the trans movement, because if we were born a decade or two later we would have been trans too. I wanted to be a boy when I was a kid, because I had a more masculine personality, but I'm glad I grew up before the trans movement took off. Transitioning for me would have been a tragedy. For many of the detransitioners it is a tragedy and I really feel for them.

A gender nonconforming woman explaining being gender free A collage of her life A gender nonconforming gay man talking about gender nonconformity

Sorry for the wall of text, I just find this whole moment in history so frustrating. It feels like we're going backwards and I'm pushing back hoping to do my bit to turn it back around.

[–]peakingatthemomentTranssexual (natal male), HSTS 10 insightful - 3 fun10 insightful - 2 fun11 insightful - 3 fun -  (3 children)

Hi MissAnarchist!

I made a thread awhile ago about this topic and I feel like it was an interesting discussion. Legal sex change helped me a lot to being able to live a normal life and not have to deal with issues around me being transsexual or discrimination. That said, I know you can’t actually change sex so it is a fiction, it can be a helpful one. Anyway, I’ll leave the thread here in case it helps. Happy to have you here. 😊

https://saidit.net/s/GCdebatesQT/comments/62sl/gc_legal_sex_change_is_there_room_for_compromise/

[–]Penultimate_Penance 8 insightful - 3 fun8 insightful - 2 fun9 insightful - 3 fun -  (2 children)

Thanks for linking that discussion. If there was a way to create a legal fiction to make a passing trans person life easier without opening a can of worms against women's rights I would be open to it. I have a hard time thinking of an alternative solution/compromise that works well for both parties though.

[–]peakingatthemomentTranssexual (natal male), HSTS 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

If you don’t mind answering, how do you feel about taking sex markers off more forms of ID or making it where only law enforcement or other people who needed to knew could see it? I feel like if it was only visible when people needed it or if you were applying for a sex-based scholarship or sports league, maybe we could insure sex-based protections stayed sex-based and make it easier for passing trans people to live normal lives. I know none of this is GCs problem to solve and there probably aren’t that many trans people it even would matter for, but I’m just curious if there is something wrong with it that I’m not thinking of. I’m sure some trans people wouldn’t like this idea either because they’d want everything to say the sex they want to be, but I feel like if I could exist without risking being outed when I had to show ID it would have been fine to not change anything.

[–]Penultimate_Penance 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I could see that working pretty well, where there could be additional data like sex that could accessed after scanning the license/passport number when needed. In most day to day activities sex shouldn't matter, so that compromise could potentially work with some caveats to protect women's spaces, shortlists, sports and so on.