QT/trans: What would be the worst things to happen if the concept of gender did not exist?

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[–]loveSloaneDebate King 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (11 children)

Lmao

You’re saying you identify as the opposite sex/gender based on group orientation that the opposite gender don’t even fit into? And that you would never have even been orientated into, because you weren’t part of the group the instinct applied to?

Women don’t all behave in the same way, we don’t all like or believe or want or do the same things- so what exactly is this group orientation instinct? Asking for examples of what behaviors, habits, and beliefs all women share that TW share as well.

And how do you account for the women and girls who don’t follow that group instinct but know they are women?

Im not talking about mentality or presentation when I say «female » appearance. I’m talking about actual sexed features that trans people often attempt to mimic on their own bodies. Whether you like it or not, sexed features are easily and even unintentionally recognized all the time, and it’s one of the reasons a lot of trans people wish to pass, so idk how you think that’s not gender normative lmao

As far as who reinforces gender more... well I can’t say for sure, but I know one of us (presumably) changed their name and drastically altered their body to appear to be the opposite sex so that despite being a male, they could attempt to live « as a woman », that’s not even getting into the things that person argues in their comments. The other... didn’t, they just grew up to be a woman because they are female and did what they wanted, regardless of whatever group orientation instinct was apparently embedded in them. I’ll leave it up to others to decide which of us is reinforcing gender.

[–]HeimdeklediROAR 1 insightful - 6 fun1 insightful - 5 fun2 insightful - 6 fun -  (10 children)

How about you not talk about my appearance and instead stick to criticizing my ideas.

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 12 insightful - 1 fun12 insightful - 0 fun13 insightful - 1 fun -  (9 children)

Your appearance is my point. It’s not said to attack you, it’s exactly what I’ve been saying this whole time. You claim to be critical of gender and that what I’m saying is wrong and sexist etc- but your very own transition is exactly my point. You altered your body and your life drastically to appear to be a woman in society, that doesn’t make you gnc, it just means you conformed in the extreme. You changed everything you could about yourself for gender’s sake. You just don’t see it.

You’re ideas are sexist and lack logic, but even what you think you’re saying- the fact of your transition invalidates your arguments and you make yourself the biggest flaw in your matrix theory.

At this point, I’d rather just stick to facts with you than try to dissect your ideas only to have them turn out to reinforce the very things you think you’re fighting against.

[–]HeimdeklediROAR 2 insightful - 6 fun2 insightful - 5 fun3 insightful - 6 fun -  (8 children)

My appearance is not a statement to me being a woman its just a way that I feel comfortable looking. I don’t want anyone assuming my gender based off of my appearance because then that means that someone else is probably having that same standard used against them to their detriment. I am a gender abolitionist and the only reason that I put an “F” on my drivers license was so that I could better maneuver in this cis supremacist society of yours. I have zero interest in reifying gender norms so don’t accuse me of such.

[–]ZveroboyAlinaIs clownfish a clown or a fish? 14 insightful - 2 fun14 insightful - 1 fun15 insightful - 2 fun -  (1 child)

I have zero interest in reifying gender norms

Then why you do and do it to a such extreme? And what about other trans people, organizations and political parties, who are promoting those norms?

"Cis supremacist society" is trying to get away from gender norms and stereotypes since 80s, slowly but surely were going to more and more accepting gender nonconformity, until transgender movement appeared and started claiming that gender nonconforming people are in reality just of the opposite sex or non-binary, that boxes of genders are very rigid, so you need to fit them, and if you don't - you are the opposite sex or non-binary.

[–]HeimdeklediROAR 1 insightful - 7 fun1 insightful - 6 fun2 insightful - 7 fun -  (0 children)

Noe of this is true. Trans people aren't turning gnc people trans, and were not insisting on strict gender roles for trans people to follow either.

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 10 insightful - 1 fun10 insightful - 0 fun11 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

So you reify gender norms in real life but preach against it (sometimes- seems like your matrix thing is constructed to allow transwomen to be women on the matrix but... okay) online.

So fine, you publicly present as woman because it’s safer- sure, does that mean here online we can call you he/him, man, male, that you can acknowledge -online only, of course- that transwomen aren’t women? That gender identity isn’t real? Because if you can’t do those things... then guess what you’re reaffirming? (Hint- gender)

[–]HeimdeklediROAR 1 insightful - 8 fun1 insightful - 7 fun2 insightful - 8 fun -  (4 children)

Its not reifying gender to use she/her pronouns, to refer to oneself as female/a women, and to say that trans women are women.

You have misunderstood the sex matrix; trans women aren’t women on the sex matrix, because there isn’t a “woman” section on the sex matrix.

[–]ZveroboyAlinaIs clownfish a clown or a fish? 10 insightful - 7 fun10 insightful - 6 fun11 insightful - 7 fun -  (0 children)

Have you drawn that matrix yet, by the way?

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 10 insightful - 3 fun10 insightful - 2 fun11 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

LMFAO

it is absolutely supporting gender to be a male and demand female pronouns, claim to be female and call yourself a woman.

I knew you’d say exactly this, you never let me down.

Just figured some of the gc people still reading this post could use the laugh.

This conversation can end here, nothing more will come of it.

[–]MarkTwainiac 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Its not reifying gender to use she/her pronouns, to refer to oneself as female/a women, and to say that trans women are women.

Calling a male she/her and female/a woman and saying TWAW is the epitome of "gender." It's also sexist, misogynistic, male supremacist, colonialist and indicative of male arrogance at its height.

[–]HeimdeklediROAR 3 insightful - 5 fun3 insightful - 4 fun4 insightful - 5 fun -  (0 children)

How is it the epitome of gender to use pronouns and identify labels? Is that the case for cis people who use pronouns and labels as well or just trans people? How is it sexist, misogynistic, male supremacist, colonialist and indicative of male arrogance at it’s height?