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[–]loveSloaneDebate King 9 insightful - 5 fun9 insightful - 4 fun10 insightful - 5 fun -  (0 children)

Was bored, so I tried

“They claim attraction to "trans men", "trans women", "nonbinaries", etc is its own thing.”

I think it can be to some extent (non binary isn’t real, so not that, but the trans attraction). But I also think homo/hetero sexuality is what it is regardless of how someone identifies. It’s still same or opposite sex, at the end of it all. Even if things get complicated- it’s still penis or vagina. There’s kind of no way around that.

“A women who is attracted to both cis women and "transwomen" isn't "straight", "bi", or "gay". She could be a gynephile, attracted to "femininity" rather than women, so even when a man that "passes as" a woman appears, she might be attracted to him (gynephilia describes the sexual attraction to women or femininity, while androphilia describes sexual attraction to men or masculinity).”

I think this is possible, but rare. I doubt there are many people who are just attracted to femininity/masculinity, regardless of the sex of the person. I’m not saying it never happens, just that I think it’s probably rare. But it sounds more like a fetish than a sexuality.

“Trans right activists however believe a woman who is attracted to both "transwomen" and cis women can still be considered a "lesbian" because: "transwomen are women/female/biologically female. A cis woman being attracted to trans women is lesbian/gay/homosexual and the relationship between a cis woman and a transwoman is lesbian/gay/homosexual".

No. Transwomen are men. They are not and will not ever be female. Lesbians are females attracted to solely to other females. Period.

“The terms "female" and "male" are used to refer to "gender", and "gender identity".”

🙄

“But because trans right activists believe sex can change,”

Lmao some people believe in unicorns, doesn’t mean unicorns exist. Some people believe the earth is flat- despite proof that it’s not. Some people believe Elvis is alive and in hiding. My point is that people believe stupid shit sometimes. This is one of those times. Sex can’t change in humans. It’s proven. I’m skipping any part of this post that pretends it does (not saying you think this but it’s just not true so why waste the effort when this is already long). And no, a reshaped penis is not female genitalia, nor is a reshaped vagina male genitalia.

“What are the arguments against that belief and the claims below:”

1- "transwomen are biologically female",

If they were they wouldn’t be trans. Sex doesn’t change in humans. Transwomen are males, and no less male than any other male.

2- "trans men are biologically male",

If they were they wouldn’t be trans. Sex doesn’t change in humans. Transmen are females, and no less female than any other female.

3- "trans women are less of a man/male",

Nope. I actually am starting to find TW more stereotypically “male” than other males. But I know you mean physically, and- nah.

4- "trans men are less of a woman/female",

Nah

5- "the relationship between a man and a transman is gay/homosexual",

Nope. Homosexual means same sex. It’s that simple. Saying otherwise is homophobic. Don’t be homophobic in 2021.

6- "the relationship between a woman and a transwoman is gay/homosexual",

Nope. Homosexual means same sex. It’s that simple. Saying otherwise is homophobic. Don’t be homophobic in 2021.

7- "the relationship between a man and a trans woman is heterosexual/straight",

Nope. Heterosexual means opposite sex attraction. This is gay.

8- "the relationship between a woman and a transman is heterosexual/straight",

Nope. Heterosexual means opposite sex attraction. This is gay.

9- "the relationship between a cisgender individual and a nonbinary or genderfluid individual is queer/bisexual/nonbinary/genderfluid, and not heterosexual or homosexual",

These aren’t real. If it’s two male people it’s gay, if it’s two female people it’s gay, if it’s one of each, hetero.

“And lastly, is attraction to "trans men", "trans women", etc separate from sexualities? Or is it not separate?”

Depends on the person, imo. They could be bi, they could be gay but have internalized homophobia, they could have a fetish, I don’t think there’s a clear answer that applies to everyone. I don’t think it’s separate from sexualities, just a specific preference or fetish or idk the word but it’s not it’s own sexuality.

“Is a man that is attracted to men and "trans men" "straight"? Or is he gay or bi? Or is he something else that has nothing to do with these sexualities?”

I’d say bi, and open to dating trans people (because just being bisexual doesn’t mean you’re open to dating trans people). I’m saying bi because at the end of the day, sexuality boils down to what you’re attracted to sexually, this is still someone open to sex with a male or female body. Even if the caveat is that the female body has to present male, they’re still comfortable with sex with someone with a vagina/neopenis, and as we all should hopefully understand, a neopenis is not a male sexual organ and a transman is not a male person.

“What about a woman that is attracted to women and "trans women"? Is she a lesbian? Or is she bi? Or is she something else that has nothing to do with these sexualities?”

Id say bi, and open to dating trans people (being bisexual doesn’t mean you’re open to dating trans people). Also reverse the caveat don’t feel like typing it all again

“What about a man that is only attracted to "trans men"? Is he gay? Is he bi? Or is he something entirely different?”

He’s hetero, with a fetish imo. Def not gay or bi.

“What about a woman that is only attracted to "trans women"? Is she gay? Is she bi? Or is she something entirely different?”

She’s hetero, with a fetish imo. Def not gay or bi. Both examples are probably almost as rare as unicorns.

Please explain your reasons. Thank you in advance.

you seem to want detailed well articulated explanations- you don’t need them if you understand how sex and sexuality work. It’s really not as complicated as tras/some trans people want it to be. Finding the rare person who is open to being with trans people (or the even more rare person who is only interested in being with trans people) doesn’t negate how sex and sexuality work for everyone else. Heterosexual means what it means. Homosexual means what it means. Bisexual means what it means. Lesbian, gay, gamp... all mean what they mean. It’s like tras find the exception and then pretend it’s the rule, and try to force everyone else to accept that it’s the rule. Even if you found a unicorn, there’s still gonna be waaay more horses in the world lol