All: Is physically transitioning ethical?

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[–]peakingatthemomentTranssexual (natal male), HSTS 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (11 children)

Every trans person I know (admittedly not many, but quite a few) has a slew of health issues, and the health issues are pretty similar amongst them, so I’m guessing it’s possibly related to their “transition” (I acknowledge it’s an uneducated guess).

Hi LoveSloane! Can you elaborate on this? I’m super curious.

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (10 children)

I only know 3 transwomen and 2 transmen on a personal level. I’ve worked with or around a few others.

Two of the three TW I know are in their 50’s, I’ve known them since I was a child, and they’d already transitioned. Both have kidney issues, migraines, and hot flashes regularly. One of them has an issue with blood clots. Im not by any means a medical expert so I can’t explain it well, I just know they told me it was related to their transition. They had a mutual friend who died of a stroke (may have been a heart attack. I can’t recall), and it seems like the TW who died had heart issues directly related to the hormones they took. (To be fair, maybe the cross sex hormones people take now are safer? Idk)

The third TW I know is around my age, I knew them before they transitioned. They have severe mood swings now, when before they were pretty mild tempered, migraines, and had some issues with their bones that I can’t really describe because I’m obviously not qualified, they also had to become an alkaline vegan (that may be the wrong term). When I saw them a year or so ago and found out they weren’t just vegan (they hadn’t been vegan before), but even had limitations within being vegan, I asked what made them decide to become vegan, and put further limits on what they’d eat, they told me their doctor told them they had to eat that way because of some complications that presented themselves. I can’t articulate it well because I didn’t quite understand it, I just know that the person I’m talking about acknowledges that they had to change their diet as a result of being on cross sex hormones. I wouldn’t be surprised if they have pre existing issues, though.

The two transmen I know- both have intense mood swings, severe acne, they both sweat like crazy- seriously, not even trying to be funny or mean just the sweating is unbelievable- one of them is losing hair (on their head, not their body) and the other seems to have all types of issues with their joints and muscles. They are always mentioning being in pain, and are on disability because of whatever these issues are, and when i asked what caused it (I assumed it was an old injury or something) they told me it was a side effect.

sorry I’m not much help, as I said, I assume their issues are related to transition, both because the issues didn’t present themselves until after they transitioned, and some are similar to each other despite them being different races, builds, different medical history etc- it could very well all be a coincidence. Im not saying that it’s for sure due to transition, just that it seems possible. I don’t know that I believe people can take cross sex hormones for extensive periods of time the way trans people do and not experience negative side effects. It seems bound to happen, but of course I could be wrong.

[–]peakingatthemomentTranssexual (natal male), HSTS 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (9 children)

Thanks for sharing! Those situations sound really difficult. I don’t know many trans people well enough to know medical issues so this super interesting. I guess I should count myself fortunate to not having any chronic problems (beyond needing ongoing hormone treatment to stay healthy, when I type it out it sounds so bad lol).

I know that blood cots are a known risk with exogenous estrogen. It can happen for females taking birth control or HRT too. Hot flashes can be a hormonal issue too, but should be happen for a trans person if everything is okay I think. Same with severe mood swings. I feel really bad for them.

For the transmen, it sounds like at least some of that could be related to T. I know it can trigger male pattern baldness if someone has that in their family. Maybe the acne too. I wondered in one of the sports threads if T might be hard on your body if it didn’t develop around it in puberty. If they started it an as adult, it might not be right for their bone structure, joints, etc. I don’t know, I’m just speculating. I feel like it would make sense though. That sounds really tough.

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 11 insightful - 1 fun11 insightful - 0 fun12 insightful - 1 fun -  (8 children)

I think my main concern as far as the blood clots and the hot flashes is that women can/will eventually go off of birth control, or can find alternative methods if they encounter complications. And when they take hrt it’s temporary, whereas with TW they have to take hormones to intentionally alter their body, and they have to take them long term (longer than women even on birth control, as far as I know).

Ive always been curious about the long term effects, particularly because it’s cross sex hormones, rather than hormone levels your body used to produce/is supposed to produce.

[–][deleted] 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

The chronic pain can be from orthopedic or neurological side-effects from the meds, or it can be from surgery itself completely apart from the meds -- it's a risk for all surgery, especially invasive procedures. Depending on individual health and genetics, post-surgical pain can become chronic in a way that physically changes nerves and pain processing pathways -- it's usually a reversible progression, but I wonder how many trans surgery patients are given thorough enough info or guidance on pain management, post-procedural physical therapy, and the like.

(ETA major surgery is often a triggering event for Fibromyalgia and Complex Regional Pain Syndrome.)

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (6 children)

They haven’t had surgery, just hormones. Only one of the two older TW has had bottom surgery, all of them had implants, but both TM are pre op/non op

Eta- actually the transman who I mentioned first had top surgery, the second one hasn’t had any (idk about any surgeries in general, but they haven’t had top or bottom surgery, I think they want top surgery though)

[–][deleted] 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

Top surgery can do this too, sadly. It's even a risk for women getting cosmetic implants.

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

I know. I’m saying the one with the chronic pain hasn’t had any surgeries.

Eta to clarify- I mentioned two transmen. the tm who is losing hair had top surgery. The one who’s always in pain has had no surgery at all, just hormones, they’re saving for it.

[–]adungitit 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Removing breasts can cause pain?

[–]MarkTwainiac 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Most of what is known about pain following and caused by removal of breasts and breast tissue comes from women who've had mastectomies as well as less radical breast surgeries such as lump removal coz of cancer. AFAIK, no follow-up is being done on all the teen girls and young women having double mastectomies today for gender identity issues. But what is well known and documented from long-term research on patients who've had breast tissue removed in whole or part due to cancer is worrying:

Post-mastectomy pain syndrome (PMPS) is a type of chronic pain that occurs after breast cancer surgeries such as mastectomy, lumpectomy and axillary lymph node dissection, which involves removing lymph nodes in the underarm region. Pain from PMPS has been described as a burning sensation; a shooting, stabbing pain; or a throbbing, aching or oppressing pain. Study results vary, but show that anywhere from 20 to 68 percent of breast cancer survivors experience PMPS. This condition can develop up to several months after surgery and can persist for three to six or more years.

Direct injury to the intercostobrachial nerve and other sensory nerves in the underarm (axilla) and breast areas during surgery causes PMPS. Subsequent formation of scar tissue from surgery for breast cancer may also be a cause. And, contrary to its name, studies have shown that PMPS may occur more often after breast-conserving therapy (lumpectomy) than after modified radical mastectomy.

Studies have also shown that the risk of PMPS may increase with the extent of axillary intervention, as axillary dissection has been shown to be a critical component in chronic pain following breast cancer surgery. Other factors that increase the risk of PMPS include treatment with radiation or chemotherapy after surgery, younger age (under 40)...

https://www.curetoday.com/view/post-mastectomy-pain-hits-a-nerve

Estimates of prevalence of the pain syndrome range from 25% to 60% of all mastectomy patients. What causes the pain is unknown, but surgical injury to peripheral nerves in the axilla or chest wall is the main explanation.

Despite its commonness, the pain syndrome has been little researched, and there is no consensus on treatment, the review authors say.

https://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/891845

Phantom breast syndrome is a type of condition in which patients have a sensation of residual breast tissue and can include both non-painful sensations as well as phantom breast pain. The incidence varies in different studies, ranging from approximately 30% to as high as 80% of patients after mastectomy. It seriously affects quality of life through the combined impact of physical disability and emotional distress.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2902108/

[–]AlexisK 6 insightful - 3 fun6 insightful - 2 fun7 insightful - 3 fun -  (0 children)

Removing breasts almost always will cause long lasting pain.

[–][deleted] 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Correct. Any surgical procedure where innervated tissue is manipulated can cause pain.