QT/trans: What makes you want to be involved in the debate or advocating for trans rights? What would need to be achieved to make you stop?

submitted by peakingatthemomentTranssexual (natal male), HSTS from self.GCdebatesQT

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[–]a_green_squidtransmed i guess? 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (46 children)

For me, I feel like it was a lot better 15+ years ago when trans stuff was getting much less attention

Lowkey agree. Visibility is, honestly, the bane of trans people. I've got some words about the more visible sect of trans people, but that maybe isn't for this topic...

What would need to happen with trans rights for you to just not care anymore?

Proper medical care for trans people. That's not just 'go into clinic, get hormones'. That's proper studies (on both medication and GD as a disorder), proper access to medical care worldwide (and defense against attacks on that access), and an improvement of what at this point is basically medieval standards of care.

Is it achievable?

HAH.

IDK, maybe, I'd settle for any one of the points happening in the next 10-15 years, but I'm not holding my breath.

[–][deleted] 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I feel similarly about visibility, but that maybe just the most basic information being more available would be helpful for those who seek it out, like taking away the stigma or taboo that sort of made that information less accessible in the past.

[–]a_green_squidtransmed i guess? 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

but that maybe just the most basic information being more available would be helpful for those who seek it out

Sure, absolutely, I don't think this conflicts with the visibility of individuals at all. Honestly I'd say at least a moderate amount of informational availability would help tremendously, especially for trans youth and young adults navigating the medical and legal world, with professionals in said fields knowing how to properly handle trans cases.

[–][deleted] 3 insightful - 5 fun3 insightful - 4 fun4 insightful - 5 fun -  (41 children)

Visibility is how we end stigma and get rights protected so no it’s not the bane of trans people.

Medieval level of care? Please you’re being incredibly hyperbolic

[–]loveSloaneDebate King 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

I’m stunned, but I actually agree with you.

(If you’re saying I think you’re saying lol)

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 6 fun1 insightful - 5 fun2 insightful - 6 fun -  (0 children)

🥳

[–]peakingatthemomentTranssexual (natal male), HSTS[S] 7 insightful - 1 fun7 insightful - 0 fun8 insightful - 1 fun -  (28 children)

Visibility is how we end stigma and get rights protected so no it’s not the bane of trans people.

I like visibility of GNC people, but I don’t like trans visibility. I don’t want little girls and boys to feel like the only way they can be themselves is to transition. Some amount of people will be trans regardless, but we shouldn’t model it because it’s not the best outcome. It should be like a last resort.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 6 fun1 insightful - 5 fun2 insightful - 6 fun -  (27 children)

It is the best outcome for trans people and thus we need trans visibility. That includes allowing children to learn about being trans and deciding for themselves if they want to pursue that.

[–][deleted] 9 insightful - 1 fun9 insightful - 0 fun10 insightful - 1 fun -  (20 children)

That includes allowing children to learn about being trans and deciding for themselves if they want to pursue that.

That just seems so inappropriate and potentially harmful though. Children can't consent, and the repercussions of transitioning when it isn't the best option can be disastrous, especially the earlier it starts. I hate seeing children suffer too, but there has to be a better way to address this.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 6 fun1 insightful - 5 fun2 insightful - 6 fun -  (19 children)

Children can absolutely consent to medical care, and I mean it’s not like the vast, vast, majority of adult patients understand medical treatments to make a truly informed decision in most cases. Deciding whether or not to transition is something that children and adolescents can decide to undertake. See Gillick Competency:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gillick_competence

[–]peakingatthemomentTranssexual (natal male), HSTS[S] 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

Vast majority of gender dysphoric children desist sometime during puberty. Taking an affirmative approach that blocks or interrupts puberty creates transsexuals from people who would have otherwise desisted. Those are facts. It’s child abuse to push transition when most kids desist just because trans adults wish they could have transitioned sooner. I was forced to wait years before I could do anything medically and I am fine. The kids who need to transition to be okay will be able to. And please don’t gaslight me about suicide, I felt that way too, but the numbers show most of us will make it through that period.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 6 fun1 insightful - 5 fun2 insightful - 6 fun -  (2 children)

Pretty sure that studies show that after puberty desistance levels plummet, so those desistance rates only apply to children. Puberty blockers have been deemed safe by the medical community and there is no evidence that they cause people who would have other wise desisted from doing so.

You are using gaslighting wrong, but studies show that early transition care reduces suicide rates. Preventing children from accessing transition care is the actual child abuse

[–]peakingatthemomentTranssexual (natal male), HSTS[S] 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Pretty sure that studies show that after puberty desistance levels plummet

Yes, not after the beginning of puberty or after Tanner III. Literally after puberty.

I’m just going to leave it there though because I can’t on this subject without making myself upset.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 6 fun1 insightful - 5 fun2 insightful - 6 fun -  (0 children)

You’re wrong, desistance drops off sharply after age 13

[–][deleted] 6 insightful - 1 fun6 insightful - 0 fun7 insightful - 1 fun -  (14 children)

That article says that Bell v Tavistock ruled that children under sixteen years old can't give informed consent for puberty blockers to treat gender dysphoria, though.

The reality of adults giving consent for medical treatment that they don't fully understand does not and should in no way extend to children. A child is still a developing human being, and as such is not biologically comparable to a fully-grown adult.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 6 fun1 insightful - 5 fun2 insightful - 6 fun -  (13 children)

Incompetent judges who are not medical experts have no impact on facts

[–][deleted] 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (12 children)

What facts are you referring to?

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 6 fun2 insightful - 5 fun3 insightful - 6 fun -  (11 children)

That children can consent, and that the opinion of non-medical experts who are almost certainly prejudiced have no bearing on the actual reality of the situation. It’s like how a law against homosexuality doesn’t actuallY make homosexuality immoral just because someone with legal power says so.

[–]peakingatthemomentTranssexual (natal male), HSTS[S] 5 insightful - 1 fun5 insightful - 0 fun6 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

I don’t think trans people are a discrete group necessarily before people transition, especially with kids. It would have helped me a lot more to have more exposure to gender nonconformity at a young age than it would have to see trans people. If someone needs to transition to be okay, they will. The only thing pushing visibility does is treat it like an identity people can assume and the explosion of people “finding out they are trans” by acting out the identity on the internet or through social networks illustrates that I feel like.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 6 fun1 insightful - 5 fun2 insightful - 6 fun -  (4 children)

There is far more depictions of gender nonconformity in media than there are of trans people

[–]peakingatthemomentTranssexual (natal male), HSTS[S] 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

I don’t think that’s true at all.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 6 fun1 insightful - 5 fun2 insightful - 6 fun -  (2 children)

Probably because gender nonconformity has been so normalized for you that you don’t notice it as much as portrayals of trans people. Do you consider depictions of women with short hair and men with long hair as gender nonconformity for instance?

[–]peakingatthemomentTranssexual (natal male), HSTS[S] 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Yeah, I don’t consider those gender nonconformity.

[–][deleted] 1 insightful - 6 fun1 insightful - 5 fun2 insightful - 6 fun -  (0 children)

Do you believe that people today do not get pushback for such hairstyles by people whom view them as less attractive on people of their gender?

[–][deleted] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (7 children)

What sort of visibility do think is helpful? I feel like there's more than one way to interpret that word/phrase in this context and I'm actually starting to get a little confused and wondering if we're defining it differently

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 4 fun2 insightful - 3 fun3 insightful - 4 fun -  (6 children)

Media visibility, Real life visibility, having people who know and have personal relationships with trans people i.e. friends, family, coworkers

[–][deleted] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (5 children)

Do you think it's necessary for more trans people to be "out" then, or that people should be making it clear that they're trans? Like, disclose their history to more people?

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 5 fun2 insightful - 4 fun3 insightful - 5 fun -  (4 children)

I think it would lead to faster acceptance but as the history of civil rights movement shows individuals who do so often bear the blowback. So I’d say it’s an individual decision about what’s important

[–][deleted] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (3 children)

You may be right about that. Is there any alternative that you can see as being more powerful than just visibility? I mean, I guess that's why I brought up awareness before...like being able to elucidate our existence, but also maintain our personal privacy.

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 5 fun2 insightful - 4 fun3 insightful - 5 fun -  (2 children)

Hm, not sure. I feel like often people are feeling based rather than fact based so I feel like building empathy through familiarity is the best method rather than education, however that comes about.

[–][deleted] 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Ahhh I think I understand what you're saying, I really like the sound of that approach! I mean, I personally feel like I don't have the education or knowledge to really share any scientific facts with confidence, but I think there's something to be said about the power of human connection :) Just being the person you are and treating others as the people they are is such a simple notion, but can have so much impact.

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 6 fun2 insightful - 5 fun3 insightful - 6 fun -  (0 children)

Indeed. Empathy and love will always lead to a better place for everyone imo

[–]a_green_squidtransmed i guess? 2 insightful - 1 fun2 insightful - 0 fun3 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Yes, standards of care promoting oral estrogen and spironolactone as the foremost treatment for TW is what I would call medieval.

[–][deleted] 2 insightful - 6 fun2 insightful - 5 fun3 insightful - 6 fun -  (0 children)

For years they told us oral and transdermal were just as effective while we said that we saw better results on injections than other methods. Low and behold we now have studies backing up our experiences 😑

[–]peakingatthemomentTranssexual (natal male), HSTS[S] 4 insightful - 1 fun4 insightful - 0 fun5 insightful - 1 fun -  (1 child)

Thanks for sharing your thoughts!

Lowkey agree. Visibility is, honestly, the bane of trans people. I've got some words about the more visible sect of trans people, but that maybe isn't for this topic...

It's frustrating. I don't really think the visibility has been good either. I don't want to be part of the culture war.

Proper medical care for trans people. That's not just 'go into clinic, get hormones'. That's proper studies (on both medication and GD as a disorder), proper access to medical care worldwide (and defense against attacks on that access), and an improvement of what at this point is basically medieval standards of care.

I agree with you on the studies and probably on the proper medical care, although I expect we see that pretty differently. What's wrong with the standards of care in your view?

IDK, maybe, I'd settle for any one of the points happening in the next 10-15 years, but I'm not holding my breath.

Makes sense. I'm sure if won't be perfectly where you want by then.

[–]a_green_squidtransmed i guess? 3 insightful - 1 fun3 insightful - 0 fun4 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

What's wrong with the standards of care in your view?

The fact that they hold an almost archaic view of how hormones should be used. I won't bore you with the boring medical stuff, but a lot of what's stated in regards to hormone regimens for both FTM and MTF is just so outdated and wrong.

There's the whole two entirely different doctors you would need to properly diagnose you to get two letters of referrals thing that isn't at ALL classist as hell.

I could go on. Luckily they aren't literal rules so much as guidelines, but the issue arises that they're the ONLY guidelines, and so people get caught up in them, since again, the majority of medical professionals know almost nothing about trans people.

Makes sense. I'm sure if won't be perfectly where you want by then.

Oh, they definitely won't be anywhere close.