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[–]strictly 13 insightful - 1 fun13 insightful - 0 fun14 insightful - 1 fun -  (4 children)

Biologically, yes. But socially they are men.

A man is an adult human male, that’s biological, not social. Having different social categories for men and women is what we call sexism, something I am against.

as long as they don't speak for me and cis women

If you have a gender identity we are not speaking for you, we are speaking for people who don’t have gender identities and therefor don’t want to be labeled with false cisgender gender identities.

Trans men should be able to discuss their oppression without cis women interfering.

We are not cisgender. I don’t mind you having a gender identity, your mind, your business, but we speak for our own minds and we don’t have gender identities. Regarding freeing the nipple, female nipples being seen as indecent is the business of every female person, not just the business of female trans people so every female person should be able to speak about it.

They experience periods as men.

Men are adult human males and never experience periods so no.

A trans person's experience with periods and a cis person's experience with periods are entirely different.

People are individuals so there are billions of different of emotions people can have regarding their periods so every individual’s experience with periods will be unique. The way female trans people talk about their experience with periods is relatable to me though. I don’t know your experience with periods but as you talked about periods being emotionally uncomfortable for trans people as a supposed difference between them and people with cisgender gender identities like yourself it seems you don’t find your own period uncomfortable so I would probably relate to your experience much less.

Many would though.

You made a specific claim that we would accuse male trans people for being evil if they were for freeing the nipple, and I said I wouldn’t call anyone evil for wanting to free the nipple. Now you are talking about something else and about people I’m not.

[–]GenderbenderShe/her/hers[S] 1 insightful - 6 fun1 insightful - 5 fun2 insightful - 6 fun -  (3 children)

A man is an adult human male, that’s biological, not social. Having different social categories for men and women is what we call sexism, something I am against.

Most of us don't define ourselves by our biology.

If you have a gender identity we are not speaking for you, we are speaking for people who don’t have gender identities and therefor don’t want to be labeled with false cisgender gender identities.

Fair point.

We are not cisgender. I don’t mind you having a gender identity, your mind, your business, but we speak for our own minds and we don’t have gender identities. Regarding freeing the nipple, female nipples being seen as indecent is the business of every female person, not just the business of female trans people so every female person should be able to speak about it.

This was about trans men being allowed to show their nipple, not women. Women can speak about their oppression in different spaces.

Men are adult human males and never experience periods so no.

Some men experience periods.

People are individuals so there are billions of different of emotions people can have regarding their periods so every individual’s experience with periods will be unique. The way female trans people talk about their experience with periods is relatable to me though. I don’t know your experience with periods but as you talked about periods being emotionally uncomfortable for trans people as a supposed difference between them and people with cisgender gender identities like yourself it seems you don’t find your own period uncomfortable so I would probably relate to your experience much less.

I hate my period. I wish it didn't exist. I take birth control to stop my period. However, I'm not going to claim my experience is necessarily the same as trans men's. For instance, a trans man wrote an article about how getting his period made him feel like less of a man. I don't know any (cis) women who say getting their period makes them feel like less of a man. For instance in this thread, a trans man was devastated that he got his period. I know about this thread because Ovarit made a thread mocking him. I always dreaded my period, but I was never devastated and distraught over this.

You made a specific claim that we would accuse male trans people for being evil if they were for freeing the nipple, and I said I wouldn’t call anyone evil for wanting to free the nipple. Now you are talking about something else and about people I’m not.

My problem is GCs constantly complain about trans women talking over trans men but talk over trans men themselves. I know my OP is not the examples, so I'll use another. On Reddit, a trans man made a thread about how some trans women talk over trans men, but emphasized not all trans women do this. GC in the old sub made a thread responding to the post. They said in the title the trans women are over sexualized, even though trans men never accused trans women of being oversexualized in that thread. They talk about how trans women are narcissistic and don't care about these poor trans men who should return to their sisters who love them. Yet GCs talk over trans men themselves. For instance, when they insist trans men transition due to misogyny or being lesbians in denial, even when actual trans men say that's not the case. Heck, when r/GenderCritical was banned, r/FTM made a thread about how happy they were that the sub was banned. There are a few other threads talking about how much they hated gender critical and "TERFs", how GC folks make them uncomfortable. From my research of that sub alone, there are more threads complaining about GCs than threads complaining about trans women. Yet when trans men ask women not to speak over them, GCs insult them. What is the difference between trans women speaking over trans men and cis/natal women speaking over trans men? Both groups are speaking over trans men.

[–][deleted] 12 insightful - 1 fun12 insightful - 0 fun13 insightful - 1 fun -  (2 children)

I don't know any (cis) women who say getting their period makes them feel like less of a man

On the contrary, I would say virtually all women that you consider 'cis' understand that menstruating makes them 'less of ' (read: not at all) a man. They may not make a habit of expressing this to others, but that's just because it goes without saying.

You say most people don't define themselves by their biology, but when it comes to classifying oneself into the categories of man or women, virtually all of us do make this classification on the basis of biology: women understand that they are by definition not men (adult human males, as per every English language dictionary), because of the reality of their biology, which includes the potential of menstruation.

[–]GenderbenderShe/her/hers[S] 1 insightful - 5 fun1 insightful - 4 fun2 insightful - 5 fun -  (1 child)

On the contrary, I would say virtually all women that you consider 'cis' understand that menstruating makes them 'less of ' (read: not at all) a man.

Because cis women are not men. Trans men are men.

You say most people don't define themselves by their biology, but when it comes to classifying oneself into the categories of man or women, virtually all of us do make this classification on the basis of biology: women understand that they are by definition not men (adult human males, as per every English language dictionary), because of the reality of their biology, which includes the potential of menstruation.

Well trans people exist and so does the concept of gender identity, so not everyone defines themselves by biology.

[–][deleted] 8 insightful - 1 fun8 insightful - 0 fun9 insightful - 1 fun -  (0 children)

Because cis women are not men.

Yes, and you made a claim that 'cis' women don't base this on their potential to menstraute: this is wrong. This (being female) is the sole metric most women use.

Well trans people exist and so does the concept of gender identity, so not everyone defines themselves by biology.

Do you know what 'virtually all of us' means? I'll give you a hint: it doesn't mean 'everyone'.